Help, PC + SFX-1 = no difference?

[NaterGator]

I'm trying to deal with the black 540i which has bad swirl marks and water spots, and I'm using SFX-1 and a SFX-1 pad on the PC. I dont know what the problem is, but I feel like I'm getting nowhere. I also feel like the paint is eating my pad up because when the polish begins to "dry" I get a fair amount of pad dust.



This is my first PC job, so I don't know exactly what to expect. I am noticing two things though: its taking no time at all for the polish to "dry" up to the point where I can barely see it, perhaps 30 seconds. I am trying not to use too much polish because I feel pretty confident I'm going to run out before I finish the car. Is my issue that I need to use more, or just the florida heat? I'm polishing in my garage, so its not in direct sun, but it is still darn hot!



Any advice? Am I just using too "light" of a polish/compound for the severity of the paint flaws? Or perhaps the paint is beyond repair by the PC and needs a rotary buffer?



Back out to the garage I go to try and clean this sucker up some more.

-----Nate

 

[imported_02ZTSfocus]

Is the car cool to the touch? If the surface of the car is hot (which is to be expected with a black car in Florida) it might cause the polish to dry out too quickly.

 

[ev01ut10ndt]

From my experience, working the sfx-1 by hand, is that it breaks down rather quickly. 30 sec is wut it took before the polish turned "clear". It also dusted too, but I havent had much experience to consider what is a lot. I went through a whole bottle of the sfx-1 just by doing 3 cars (midsize sedan size). Take my words lightly however, as I used the polishing pad by hand.

 

[NaterGator]

I've spent 4 hours on the hood of this thing so far, no luck! There is almost no noticeable difference. I'm starting out at lowest speed with moderate pressure, and increasing speed/decreasing pressure as the polish disappears. I have noticed that it goes "clear" but still has an oily feel, so I tried buffing to see if it would haze down and "dry" up, but after approx 3 mins or so I felt like it wasnt going anywhere and I was going to damage something.



So, do I just not have a strong enough products, or am I doing something wrong. I'll try and go take pictures for reference.

 

[Scottwax]

You are going to have to get more aggressive if your current combination isn't working.



You ought to consider trying Optimum's polishes/compounds. You can work them forever and even in the full sun they don't dry out.

 

[NaterGator]

Here's what I'm getting, for visual reference:

Post 2x SFX-1

Pre SFX-1

Trunk lid, no polish

You can see this paint is pretty bad. Maybe I'm just in over my head?

 

[Scottwax]

Honestly, that is a pretty big improvement considering how horrible that paint is to start with.

 

[NaterGator]

Indeed, looking at the flash pictures I can definitely see the paint's improvement, so I've decided to just move along and hash it out. The paint is really just pathetic, I'm assuming its a neglected cheap repaint because if BMW factory paint gets this bad, it is worthless. As of right now I'm hitting all the panels with SFX-1 or what I have left of it anyways, and then going over everything with SFX-2. I have Sonus SwirlBuster polish as well as Paintwork cleanser and SFX-3, but I'm not sure if SwirlBuster or Painwork are worth favoring or applying over the SFX products. Would it be worth it to follow up SFX-1 with Swirlbuster and then SFX-2, etc?



Thanks for the replies....

 

[firegate]

I'm starting out at lowest speed with moderate pressure, and increasing speed/decreasing pressure as the polish disappears.

That could be your problem. For serious defect correction, you need to ramp the PC up to 5 or 6, place some pressure on it and move slowly (about 1-2in per second).

 

[NaterGator]

I've all but determined this car is repainted, because around the left taillight the clearcoat is peeling off like its not even bonded to the paint. It's also very brittle and hard... but oh well!



Firegate, thanks. I started using SFX-1 at speed 4 with pretty decent pressure and that helped. I feel like I'm pushing SFX-1 to its abrasive limits and I would be better off with a more abrasive compound, but after almost a whole bottle of SFX-1 and more than 6 hours, I've finished my first stage of polishing. I've only got today and tomorrow before I go back up to UF and leave my dad his car, so I've got to get it as good as possible for now and definitely as protected as possible, because I know it will be rained on, sprinkled on, birded, etc without much attention while I am gone. As it stands right now, it still has pretty visible scratches and swirl marks, as well as bad water spots on the hood, but its much better than it was before.



Next step is Sonus Swirlbuster and or SFX-2!



Also, is Mother's Back to Black available in any retail chains? Although I taped off all his trim it is definitely dry and lackluster, and could use some serious attention.



Thanks guys, I'm very happy to see the car getting some much deserved attention.

 

[Charlies02GLS]

Easy way of telling whether or not the car has been re-sprayed is to feel along the along the edges of the panels for roughness like sandpaper. Just for future reference...

 

[NaterGator]

Update:



Using SFX-2 and I'm having the damnedest time getting it off! I feel like this paint is porous... I use the PC until the SFX-2 is even and cleared up, but when I go to buff out with a sonus buffing towel it is difficult if not impossible to get it off the car.



Do I need to detail-spray before I start on SFX-3? The paint feels great and clean, but under flourescent overhead lights it is clear that there is residue of SFX-2 on there... the black looks streaky and not "deep" in areas....



This paint is killing me, it's really awful!!! :sign :wall

 

[NaterGator]

More problems... I finished SFX-2, the paint looks largely like it did before, maybe marginally glossier.



Now I'm on to SFX-3 and I've hit a brick wall. It is even worse than SFX-2 in the hazing department. I polish at about 2.5-3 speed. It starts out nice and blue, spreads and seems to work, but as it dries it seems to go clear. There is no "haze" like the bottle/website says. Under certain lighting conditions there is a haze, but it is not at all what I expect they are talking about.



Seeing how I couldn't get it off with a buffing towel I put some more SFX-3 on the applicator and tried stopping sooner just before the "clear" stage to see if I could get it off in it's liquid form... but it seems like it dries up so the PC can gloss the paint, which makes removing it damn near impossible.



This is taking me hours upon hours, in fact I am going on 24 hours working on this car. I really don't know if I am to blame or the paint, but I suspect it is a bit of both. If anyone has any ideas about what I may be doing wrong or what I need to do to the paint, please let me know! I need to get Klasse AIO on there for some protection and then P21S but at this rate I'm never going to get to AIO and I feel like if I do it will never come off.



Here is a pic of my SFX-3 problem as it stands now, if that helps.

Thanks

-----Nate

 

[SpoiledMan]

First things first. Get that tag off that towel.



OK. From your statement and the picture, it looks as though you're not breaking the polish down properly. Use the lower speed to spread the product and then crank it up to 5 and apply some pressure on the head of the machine. Work it until it turns clear and then remove. If it is difficult to remove, spray a light mist of water on it and then remove OR you can wet your towel, wring it out and use it to remove the residue.

 

[NaterGator]

Ok, I will make those changes to my application process.



I also found I was trying to use way too much. This stuff is much more oily than the other SFX products and a nickel sized blob did almost half the hood. I am still having a problem with the stuff leaving a "greasy" residue that doesn't wipe up dry in a few areas, but I'm getting better and it seems to be making the paint look a little wetter, and although the effect is slight, anything on this paint is an improvement.





Just to clairfy: when you say apply some pressure... about how much? Like... I'm trying to stop bleeding pressure, I'm closing a filing cabinet pressure, I'm sliding the oven tray in pressure? From claying, DSing, and applying SFX-1 and 2 my arms are dead tired and I have a feeling I've been using more pressure than I probably needed to. Then again I think I needed something more agressive than SFX-1 because the hood still has a fairly poor if not smooth finish.



Oh well, I've got time before thanksgiving break and I can order more appropriate supplies for when I'm home next time. Then again, maybe it is time to tell the old man to repaint his 5.



But, I digress! Thanks for the help!

 

[NaterGator]

So much work, and yet so far from glossy!

I fear this is as good as its going to look now that I've finished with SFX-3 and only have AIO and P21S left. Maybe a bit more gloss and slightly deeper black, but I'm not holding my breath.



If this was your project, what would you do? Would you call it a day and just maintain the current quality? Would you go no holds barred until you either got a slick look back or had to repaint, or just flat out repaint?



The picture doesn't really represent how the car looks... of course from extreme side angles it looks alot like a mirror and is very glossy... but when you look at it head on it may even look worse than the picture... it is now at least glossy, but it still shows of abuse. I feel like this must have been usually hard paint, because although I did manage to greatly cut down on the swirl marks and surface scratches, the acid rain/water spot etching and what I assume is the beginings of oxidation still are very much present, despite my use of SFX-1 on the entire car with judicious pressure.



Oh well, sleep time now... tomorrow its a coat or two of Klasse and some P21S. I'm going to try and slap some zaino tire shine on the trim. I have done it in the past, yet the trim always seems to go back to flat/gray looking after a week or so, and any trim that was hit with polish in years past is white and quite annoying. Oh well... another project, another time....

 

[LucasZCPM3]

NaterGator, where are you located? Maybe an Autopian can come give you a guiding hand..

 

[NaterGator]

I'm currently in Tampa, Fl but I have to go back up to Gainesville (UF, hence the name "Gator" ) tomorrow around 3.



I would love for an experienced autopian to visually inspect this beast and see what deal is. I know I made it look better (I wish I had charged my digicam for "before" pics) but I know there is alot more that could have been done by somebody more experienced than me. I'm confident in three things now:

A) This was way too much of a project for my first PC job.

B) The paint on this car is abnormal, it is not factory BMW paint. It is rediculously hard, and the clearcoat is painfully thin.

C) My Dad is going to think I wasted my time doing this



Here are two shots of the peeling clearcoat around the taillight. I am begining to suspect that the clearcoat is perilously thin based on the lack of any "depth" to the color (in fact, in direct light it looks washed out and almost a milky brown color. You can see this in the second pic, where the car's panel looks brown compared to the painted surface of the bumper which looks jet black)







At the very least I got the interior in better condition with some of my Zaino leather/plastic products, and fixed his broken electric seat control.



If any autopians wouldn't mind looking at this car though and giving me a few pointers, let me know that you're willing and I'll try to give some heads up as to when I'll be back in town next.



Thanks guys.... I'm happy the paint is better but sad I couldn't do any better

 

[Accumulator]

NatorGator- IMO you're being too hard on yourself, I bet it looks a *lot* better than it did before you started. If nothing else the paint is now truly clean and much smoother, the marring has been reduced, and there will be some protecive LSP on it.



There's only so much you can do on some vehicles, let alone in your situation where you're working with (only) the PC and a limited selection of products.



FWIW, I *like* doing beater cars, both my own and the ones I borrow from my mechanic. I sure don't try to make them perfect, I make them a lot better. And after a good detailing they *stay* a lot better with just some basic care.



If your dad doesn't appreciate the improvement in his car I'll be surprised (and disappointed).



Did you try using AIO and P21S on the plastic trim? Such approaches work great on some cars but not so great on others. Try a small, out of the way spot and see what you think. I like this approach better than dressings as dressings wash off/run in the rain.



Oh, and I'd get a smaller backing plate and some 4" pads, they really do let you get much more aggressive. Could be that there are other products that you'd like better too, it can sometimes take a while to find what stuff works best for *you*.



Oh#2, I'd use something like Collinite for jobs like this, it'll keep beading for a long time.

 

[NaterGator]

NatorGator- IMO you're being too hard on yourself, I bet it looks a *lot* better than it did before you started. If nothing else the paint is now truly clean and much smoother, the marring has been reduced, and there will be some protecive LSP on it.

Yeah, you're probably right... I'm very much so a perfectionist and probably expected too much out of the paint. It does look much more glossy and definitely a better surface, but sadly there are still plenty of surface scratches to be seen. I hope this will at least motivate my dad to take decent care of it. I'm going to try and find a detailer in the area that he can call on maybe a monthy basis for a quality wash and maybe a coat of sealant or two.. because God knows he wont do it himself (no time) and he shouldn't be taking it to a big "chain" carwash.

There's only so much you can do on some vehicles, let alone in your situation where you're working with (only) the PC and a limited selection of products.

I definitely see that now. In hindsight I would have definitely gone with more abrasive polishes if not a compound and smaller pads, but oh well. I can already tell this is going to be another expensive hobby (SCUBA, photography are two of my others ) but it is worth it to see a beautiful car at the end of the day.

FWIW, I *like* doing beater cars, both my own and the ones I borrow from my mechanic. I sure don't try to make them perfect, I make them a lot better. And after a good detailing they *stay* a lot better with just some basic care.

I hear ya there. I actually did 9 coats of Zaino on this car before... 4 coats of Z5 and 5 coats of Z2. That also took days, but the feel of the paint after I was done was nothing short of perfect, and although it still had all the same swirlmarks and scratches, it was as protected as I could possibly get it, and when I came home and washed it two months later, it looked as good as the day I finished Zainoing.... I loved that!

If your dad doesn't appreciate the improvement in his car I'll be surprised (and disappointed).

I'm sure he will.... he also loves when I Zaino his leather, and that broken seat control has been bugging him (only his mirrors would adjust, not tilt wheel, seat, etc!)

I want my parents to understand that I know how to take care of and appreciate a fine car, because they've expressed some interest in helping me buy a better vehicle if I keep my grades up and prove that I can take care of it. I think this is definitely a step in the right directon.

Did you try using AIO and P21S on the plastic trim? Such approaches work great on some cars but not so great on others. Try a small, out of the way spot and see what you think. I like this approach better than dressings as dressings wash off/run in the rain.

I haven't. I'm about to go apply a coat or two of AIO, and after I finish with that and the P21S I'll pull the painters tape off and see how they work on the trim. The plastic seems extremely porous but I've never used AIO before, so I do hope that it works... I'm searching for something more permanent short of re-dying the trim. Thanks for the tip!

Oh#2, I'd use something like Collinite for jobs like this, it'll keep beading for a long time.

Doh! Too bad I didn't know that ahead of time Oh well, next time I'll slap some Collinite on and hopefully keep the water at bay a little better. Part of the problem is we cannot garage our cars, and so they sit next to the neighbor's sprinkler system which runs weekly and deposits Florida's clasically hard water all over the paint. I encourage my parents to park on the street those nights, but it usually has little effect :rules:





Thanks again guys! Just got finished doing a quick DS wipedown to remove excess SFX-3 before I AIO with the SFX-2 pad and I gotta say, in the daylight I can definitely tell it is better even if its not great.