Foreign or American?

Lone_Star

New member
Well as the title states what would nudge ya'll to consider buying American cars? What is it about American cars that you have experienced that makes you not consider them? Or what have you experienced from foreign models that keep you only considering them?

Trying to figure out what is the problem with America's car companies that are making them obsolete.
 
American cars aren't the only ones struggling, but they are the only country that seems to be really struggling across the board. I just have never been impressed with the styling, quality or individuality. So many American brands are just buying Japanese motors, frames and other parts and just rebranding them as their own. Every American vehicle that my family has owned over the years has given us too many headaches to make it worth the consideration of purchasing another one in the future.
 
Audiboy, thanks for the response. That is what I have heard too many times. Past experiences that keep people from buying. There also seems to be a bunch of misunderstanding about the industry as a whole.

Thanks again, and I hope ya'll will keep them coming.
 
With all the automotive reading I do, I'd like to consider myself fairly well informed. It's sad that American vehicles are getting passed over for imports, but I just feel that the majority of American vehicles are a step behind their Japanese or European counterparts.
 
True, I just I hope they didn't realize it before it is too late. First mistake was not listening to the American that turned Toyota into the powerhouse it is today. All three, Ford, GM and Chrysler laughed at the guy so he went to Toyota and well the rest is now evident.
 
Over the past several years our family has owned 2 European vehicles, 5 vehicles of Japanese origin, and so many domestics that I lose count.
(Motorcycles are excluded from the vehicle count)

Out experience with all of them has been pretty good. I can't say that the Domestics cost us any more to maintain and drive than the imports.
These were all daily drivers and were used as such. Miles driven was well over 100,000 miles on the domestics in many instances. 176,000, 168,000, 153,000, 136,000, 126,000 for examples. There's more, but this post will probably be waaay to long anyway.

A few import recall statistics.
2006 - Toyota Motor Corp. said Tuesday it is recalling nearly 1 million vehicles

2007 - Toyota Motor Corp. said Thursday it was recalling 533,000 Tundra pickup trucks and Sequoia sport utility vehicles

2006 - Toyota has now recalled almost 800,000 vehicles in July

2002 - Thousands of Toyota owners are facing costly engine repairs and replacements because of a problem with sludge build-up. Toyota has been refusing to cover the repairs but is now having second thoughts.

2002 - Toyota Motor Corp. is recalling 375,000 4Runners, 535,000 small pickups and 68,000 T- 100s, to check for and repair a steering-related flaw that could cause drivers to lose control of their vehicles.

2006 - Honda Motor Co. has announced a massive worldwide recall of 561,594 vehicles

2006 - Honda Motor Corp. said Monday that it was recalling about 165,000 vehicles from the 2005-06 model years in the United States to deal with potential engine problems.

2006 - Honda Motor Co. plans to recall 298,231 vehicles across 13 models to repair a manufacturing defect that could stop the cars' engines, the company said Thursday.

2003 - Volkswagen and Audi will recall more than half a million vehicles to replace a defective ignition coil that leaves the cars prone to sudden power losses

2004 - Audi division of Volkswagen AG is recalling nearly 173,000 vehicles sold in the United States because of potential fires in the driver's-side dashboard area

These I didn't get the dates on.
BMW recalls 38,000 Minis over gear problem

BMW is recalling 164,000 X5 luxury 4X4 vehicles after discovering a potential brake defect

The point of all this is very simply that all the manufacturers have their quality problems.
Domestics may have more than the imports, but I don't really know that.
The one thing I do know is that the imports aren't entirely trouble free.
As far as a buying decision, if I like the way a vehicle looks and drives, I really don't care who the manufacturer was. In the 50+ vehicles we have owned, the only bad ones were a Cadillac and a couple of Mustangs (I'm a glutton for punishment :))

Charles
 
Just to throw in some unbiased material, I have a list of the most recalled vehicles of 2006 brought to you by the Detroit News.

The most-recalled automobiles of 2006

Dodge Ram Pickup
Base Price: $22,170
Number Of 2006-Model Recalls: 7

Recalls concerned:
--Faulty anti-lock brake electronic control units
--Defective front suspensions
--Airbags that could deploy with excessive force
--Transfer cases on four-wheel drive models that may inadvertently shift to neutral and cause parked vehicles to roll away
--Seatbelts that may not be able to secure certain child seats
--Missing pieces of exterior lighting
--Defective rearview mirrors


Dodge Durango SUV
Base Price: $27,055
Number Of 2006-Model Recalls: 6
Recalls concerned:
--Incorrect airbag restraint controllers
--Faulty automatic transmissions that may not be able to shift into "Park"
--Faulty anti-lock brake software
--Rear-suspension components damaged during assembly
--Defective front windshield-wiper motors
--Malfunctioning turn signals, headlights or windshield wipers

Chevrolet Silverado Pickup
Base Price: $23,605
Number Of 2006-Model Recalls: 4
Recalls concerned:
--8.1-liter V-8 engines that may leak fuel
--Inaccurate tire and loading-information labels
--Defective power-steering systems
--Another for inaccurate tire and loading-information labels

GMC Sierra Pickup
Base Price: $18,760
Number Of 2006-Model Recalls: 4
Recalls concerned:
--8.1-liter V-8 engines that may leak fuel
--Inaccurate tire and loading-information labels
--Defective power-steering systems
--Another for inaccurate tire and loading-information labels

Honda Civic Coupe And Sedan
Base Price: $14,810
Number Of 2006-Model Recalls: 4
Recalls concerned:
--Faulty frontal airbags
--Gas pedals that may come loose
--Improperly attached rear glass

Hyundai Sonata Sedan
Base Price: $17,345
Number Of 2006-Model Recalls: 4
Recalls concerned:
--Improperly affixed airbag-warning labels
--Improperly assembled headlights
--Front seatbacks that may inadvertently recline
--Improperly programmed electronic stability-control systems

Jeep Liberty SUV
Base Price: $22,025
Number Of 2006-Model Recalls: Four
Recalls concerned:
--Faulty wiring that could lead to underbody fires
--Faulty door latches
--Faulty suspensions
--Faulty automatic transmissions that may not be able to shift into "Park"

Land Rover LR3 SUV
Base Price: $42,150
Number Of 2006-Model Recalls: 4
Recalls concerned:
--Faulty ignition switches
--Fuel tanks that may leak
--Automatic transmissions that may not be able to shift into "Park"
--Seatbelts that don't latch properly

Land Rover Range Rover Sport SUV
Base Price: $57,950
Number Of 2006-Model Recalls: 4
Recalls concerned:
--Faulty ignition switches
--Automatic transmissions that may not be able to shift into "Park"
--Seatbelts that don't latch properly
--Faulty brakes
 
Even though I'm not a big fan of American vehicles, I still found this to be a pretty good read. It has some very interesting data about the misconceptions of American vehicle dependability and sales.

American Perception Problems of the American Auto Industry
Roger Simmermaker, Author

Ford and General Motors have taken turns besting the Toyota Camry in quality surveys for the past two years, but if you talk to many Americans - especially the ones who would never consider supporting home-based auto companies - you’d never know it.

Last year, the Chevrolet Impala beat the Toyota Camry in initial quality according to J.D. Power & Associates, and Consumer Reports just announced that both the Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan scored higher than both the Toyota Camry and the Honda Accord this year.
After the announcement, Ford’s Director of Global Quality Debbe Yeager commented “It’s a perception gap,” referring to the struggle American companies have had overcoming the perceived and seemingly untarnishable reputation of their foreign rivals.

Even as GM and Ford have accumulated award after award on vehicle quality, you’d almost never know about such quality gains made by American companies - or quality declines of foreign companies - by listening to the media. Did you hear about it when the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration announced that Toyota recalled more vehicles than it sold in the U.S. last year? Probably not. Did you hear about Toyota making an “elaborate apology” for their “worrisome series of recalls” that has “tarnished its reputation for quality?” Probably not. Did you hear about the Toyota senior manager quote that stated “We used to do quiet recalls called ‘service campaigns’ to deal with defects but we’re not going to hide anything anymore?” Such a statement suggests Toyota’s past recall numbers were probably much higher than we were led to believe, and they profited handsomely by having a perception of higher quality than they deserved. In Japan, prosecutors are looking into possible negligence on the part of Toyota for shirking recalls for the last eight years. How ironic. You probably didn’t hear about that one either because the American media doesn’t like to bash foreign auto companies – only American ones.

Then there’s the mythical perception that foreign automakers produce the most fuel efficient cars and that Detroit only makes gas-guzzlers when the truth is that all automakers - including Toyota, Honda and Hyundai-Kia alike – have allowed fuel economy to slide in the past 20 years since they all now sell bigger trucks and more SUVs. One of Toyota’s senior executives was even quoted in the Wall St. Journal September 28 saying that both the Toyota Sequoia and Tundra “are big gas-guzzling vehicles” and expressed “concern about the longer-term prospects.” These longer-term prospects about their admitted gas-guzzlers are questioned because they know that Ford’s F-150 and Chevy’s Silverado have led the pack in sales year after year.
Yes, gasoline has been getting more expensive – at least until recently – but the fact that Americans continue to buy it in greater quantities qualifies us as hypocrites for suggesting GM and Ford stop building so many big trucks and SUVs. After all, GM and Ford are only responding to demand as any company would and should if they want to remain profitable in a cut-throat competitive market. According to a Business Week survey, we Americans bought 10% more gasoline in the first six months of 2006 compared to the first six months of 2000 even though gas prices rose 75% in that period. Maybe here I could also mention that the Chevy Tahoe beat the gas-guzzling Toyota Sequoia in quality surveys and gets better gas mileage to boot.

But what has happened since gas prices have been on the decline in recent months? The Wall Street Journal reported a “slight” increase in truck sales by American companies, as Ford Expedition sales were up 41% and Lincoln Navigator sales were up 44%. The American media even tries to restrain its applause for home-based auto companies by referring to gains of over 40% as “slight!”

Perhaps the biggest perception problem is that American automobile companies GM and Ford (Chrysler is now German-owned) squander all their money on plants overseas and foreign automakers build their factories in the U.S. Foreign car lovers will surely point to Kia’s plans to build its first-ever U.S. plant in Georgia, but they probably won’t mention that they received $400 million in tax giveaways to do it, which translates into $160,000 per job. Among the many benefits for the foreign-owned company, your tax dollars are going to be used for road improvements surrounding the complex, complete with flower beds and other beautification features. Hey, as long as we’re going to allow states to bid for private jobs with our public tax dollars, we might as well make it look good, right?

And the foreign car lovers will probably also not tell you (or maybe they just don’t know or don’t want you to know) that GM and Ford pour more money into existing American facilities than foreign automakers spend on new plants, usually with little or no tax breaks. GM has already spent over $500 million upgrading two transmission plants this year, and has spent nearly a billion dollars over the last decade, for example, for facility upgrades in Texas. And what do GM and Ford get for making their existing plants more efficient? It isn’t tax breaks. Instead, they get accusations of not being “competitive” enough! Maybe here I should also mention that the average domestic parts content for Kia is 3%, while the average domestic parts content of Ford and GM is 78% and 74% respectively. This means that buying a U.S.-assembled (or even foreign-assembled, for that matter) GM or Ford supports more American jobs than a U.S.-assembled car or truck with a foreign nameplate.
Fortunately for our benefit, the U.S. remains the overall global leader in research and development, and a big reason for that is that American automakers – according to the Level Field Institute – invest $16 billion in R&D (Research & Development) annually, which outpaces any other industry one could name. Admittedly, the Level Field Institute counts German-owned DaimlerChrysler as an American automaker, so Ford and GM’s combined R&D contribution to America is closer to around $12 billion. But who’s counting, right? Certainly not the American auto-bashing media.
Japanese companies do employ 3,600 American workers in R&D, but that still leaves the foreign competition behind in the dust staring at American rear bumpers. 3,600 sounds like a big number until you realize that 65,000 Americans work in R&D facilities in the state of Michigan alone. In fact, two of the top four R&D spending companies in America as reported by the Wall Street Journal are – you guessed it – Ford and General Motors. The other two are also American companies: Pfizer and Microsoft.
Ford has recently made headlines as the American automaker with the most challenges to its future, but these challenges certainly are not because they “aren’t making cars people want to buy.” Toyota did outsell Ford in July, but since then, Ford has reclaimed the No. 2 spot and has held it ever since. GM has the highest market share, increasing over 2 percentage points from a year ago. So apparently they can’t be accused of not making cars people want to buy either. Ford sales are also up in Europe, and Ford doubled their sales in China, where GM has the highest market share of any automaker.
General Motors also reported a 3.9% rise in August vehicle sales despite high gas prices and a supposedly slowing economy. And even though Toyota reported record sales that month, they couldn’t match the non-record setting sales volume of Ford. GM’s sales rose 17% in October from the same month in 2005 and Ford sales rose 8% in the same period. Ford also sits on $23 billion in cash, so they have plenty of money to focus on and fix any problems.
And for all the talk about the lack of fuel efficiency of American automakers, it seems three-fourths of all automakers failed to meet Europe’s improved fuel-efficiency standards intended to cut carbon-dioxide emissions. Japanese and German automakers topped the list of the study’s worst performers, but according to an environmental group’s study, GM’s Opel division and Ford both “come out well.”

In closing, I’ll leave some encouraging numbers for those of us who actually like to root for and support the home team. The J.D. Power 2006 Vehicle Dependability Survey reports that Mercury, Buick and Cadillac (in that order) grabbed the number 2, 3 and 4 spots to beat Toyota, Honda, Nissan, BMW and everyone else (except Lexus) in having the least number of problems per 100 vehicles.

Perhaps someday the American media will give GM and Ford the credit they deserve. And once they do, perception among the majority of the American public will rightfully change. GM and Ford aren’t only doing what they should to make gains in the American market to deserve American consumer loyalty; they’re also doing what they should to make gains in the markets of China, Europe and across most of the rest of the globe.

Roger Simmermaker is the author of “How Americans Can Buy American: The Power of Consumer Patriotism.” He also writes “Buy American Mention of the Week” articles for his website How Americans Can Buy American and is a member of the Machinists Union and National Writers Union. Roger has been a frequent guest on the CNN, Fox News Channel and MSNBC and has been quoted in the USA Today, Wall Street Journal and US News & World Report among many other publications.
Roger Simmermaker, Author
How Americans Can Buy American
How Americans Can Buy American
 
Great post Audi and Charles. Unfortunately I have noticed Charles that mainstream media stays away from announcing too much about Toyota or Honda Recalls. I read all the time about them in industry news, but notice a lot of the time nothing is said about it in mainstream.

Overall I still believe we have lost pride. Not only the people building these vehicles but us the consumer. Every other country still has pride that their products are superior then America's, and for some reason even we are beginning to believe that we are inferior to foreign manufacturers. Just my .02.
 
It seems like American cars got a bad rap in the 80's and 90's for bad quality...now that they have improved the quality and actually have some nice models out there..The ghost of the past is still stuck in a lot of minds...

When my truck went in for some warranty work..actually it was a modification from a service bulletin..they gave me a New Fusion to drive while the truck was being worked on and parts arrived...

I have to say that car was very nice...I enjoyed it ..it was laid out nice inside...had power...luxury ...I said I may trade the Honda in for one of these...

I feel Domestic cars have come a long ways...just people have not caught up to it yet...

I am a American truck owner and always will be..I have owned Chevy and Ford trucks for over 30 years...

Al
 
I'm all about american vehicles (gm in particular) although i do like some imports (especially those of italian or german origin) American trucks imo are just all around better and i dont beleive there will be much argument here so i dont feel a need to explain myself. As for sports cars i like gm cars because of the lsx motors i know in my trans am i get an ave of 18mpg and up to 24ave on the highway with about 425hp at the crank (363rwhp) and i have a tendancy to put my foot in it quite a bit. Also for thier value a new corvette zo6 will out perform almost every production super car there is both on a road course and in straightline acceleration for around 70,000. Now as for a nice daily driver for me its a toss up sure a caddy is probably a better value and are extremely nice but as far as styling goes i think id rather have a new bmw 335i or audi s4 but i need a truck with jersey winters so i probably wont have that problem for quite a bit
 
If the Saturn Astra is available in a diesel when it comes out next year then sign me up, but if not I will have to buy another VW.
 
I'm going to be purchasing a new car within the next year (I hope), so I've started to look around. Unfortunately, there really isn't a GM or Ford car I like at this time. For Dodge, I do like the Charger and Magnum. I've always owned a GM car, but mostly because it was what I liked or could afford at the time. I've had decent luck with all my vehicles with only minor issues along the way.

My next car needs to be four doors, able to comfortably seat four adults, get some sort of mileage and be as quick or quicker than my current Grand Prix. That won't be too hard as she's slow and only runs a 15.09 in the quarter-mile. I also need the car to look somewhat nice. It sure as heck won't be black. :)
 
be as quick or quicker than my current Grand Prix. That won't be too hard as she's slow and only runs a 15.09 in the quarter-mile. I also need the car to look somewhat nice. It sure as heck won't be black. :)
Sound like something a couple more pounds of boost would take care of.
My wife really appreciated the 3.4 pulley on her GTP. :)
Makes the trips to the grocery store much quicker. :D

Charles
 
Also for thier value a new corvette zo6 will out perform almost every production super car there is both on a road course and in straightline acceleration for around 70,000.

The new Z06 is a very quick sports car, but it is far from being labled a super car(I'm not trying to say that you labeled it as one). The interior styling is mediocre at best and feels really chincy inside. I would rather them raise the price of the car and put together a better interior than to have to sacrifice comfort and quality just for a big engine. It is probably the best bang for your buck sports car though. It will take out entry level super cars too, but it's really only limited to those entry level ones. But just remember that the 4 cyl. Lotus Exige S. took out the new Z06 on a road course on an episode of Top Gear.
 
I'm going to be purchasing a new car within the next year (I hope), so I've started to look around.

My next car needs to be four doors, able to comfortably seat four adults, get some sort of mileage and be as quick or quicker than my current Grand Prix. That won't be too hard as she's slow and only runs a 15.09 in the quarter-mile. I also need the car to look somewhat nice. It sure as heck won't be black. :)

Another vehicle to consider is the Chrysler 300. It certainly is roomy and rides great. I am surprised at how good the mileage is on the highway. I always get hi 20's. We have the six cylinder engine. Although it is not a Hemi it is surprisingly sporty with good take off at the lights. Just food for thought.
 
My next car needs to be four doors, able to comfortably seat four adults, get some sort of mileage and be as quick or quicker than my current Grand Prix. That won't be too hard as she's slow and only runs a 15.09 in the quarter-mile. I also need the car to look somewhat nice. It sure as heck won't be black. :)

How about an Impala SS :dnaughty
 
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