FK1 paint decontamination vs. clay bar. Your thoughts?
- Thread starter MMasz
- Start date
Even though people tell me to the contrary, I've never found my clay bars to do all that much LSP removal. Of course, I only have the "light" type clay... stepping up to a more aggressive clay would obviously involved more LSP removal.
If you're just a detailer by hobby, then I think just polishing or using something like AIO would be good enough, right?
If you're just a detailer by hobby, then I think just polishing or using something like AIO would be good enough, right?
atticdog
New member
I would like to try fk's decontamination on my fathers nissan frontier its white and there is alot of tar in corners and crevices that i cant clay easily
imported_Bence
New member
To answer the question, well, both methods have a definite place and can/should co-exist. Claying is a mildly abrasive cleaning, while a decon is an acidic deep cleaning. Clay is unable to remove embedded contaminants; it just shaves the tops off. If you have more serious below surface defects, you should do a decon.
And while a decon cycle does more than a claying session would, it is sometimes necessary to clay while the acid dwells on the surface to remove stubborn above surface contaminants mechanically.
And while a decon cycle does more than a claying session would, it is sometimes necessary to clay while the acid dwells on the surface to remove stubborn above surface contaminants mechanically.
Bigpoppa3346
New member
Bence said:
Clay isn't abrasive, at least not to your cars paint.
Bigpoppa3346
New member
Well it doesn't abrade away paint or create marring by itself, which is what I think of when I hear abrasive. It is abrasive to the contaminants, though.
paul34 said:
If you clay a car that's been for any period of months without it, you'll feel the difference on the paint. It's worth doing at least once or twice a year, IMO. I've never done a decontam, but I have no doubt that it would remove some stuff that clay can't. It's also the best way of being sure you start with a fresh surface, much more than a Dawn wash would provide, to remove all your old LSPs and provide a clean surface for your next layers of protection.
Dan
Well-known member
Use clay on a car with some mild oxidation, preferably with a blue or darker colored bar and tell me you don't see oxidation on the clay.
Some clays are more agressive than others, but the common consumer grade clays in the auto parts stores are usually safe to use, provided they're used properly. Detailing clays do in fact use microscopic abrasives to shave down or shear off bonded contaminants. Simply increasing or decreasing the type of abrasives, the physical size of the abrasives, the concentration of abrasives and the firmness of the resin being used will make the clay more or less agressive. Clay lube is very important because it's what allows the clay to hydroplane across the surface without any marring or scratching. Anything above the normal surface is subject to the clay's friction + abraision.
imported_Bence
New member
Bigpoppa, clay IS abrasive. There is abrasive powder suspended in the mallable matter! It *can*, and heavier grades WILL mar paint. The smoothness after claying comes from the abrasive content, which is over 10.000 grit.
On the next two pics, you can see a wetsanded patches of a Chrysler Crossfire hood. Unfortunately, the relevant sanding is in the top left corner of the first picture and is difficult to see, but the surface is the same as the bigger sanding in the middle of the pic. Matte spot, no gloss whatsoever.
On the second picture (direct shot; showing the sanded spot), you can clearly see that after claying, there IS some gloss, because the weak abrasives of the clay were able to bring back the finish to a degree.
Gadsan, good explanation!
On the next two pics, you can see a wetsanded patches of a Chrysler Crossfire hood. Unfortunately, the relevant sanding is in the top left corner of the first picture and is difficult to see, but the surface is the same as the bigger sanding in the middle of the pic. Matte spot, no gloss whatsoever.
On the second picture (direct shot; showing the sanded spot), you can clearly see that after claying, there IS some gloss, because the weak abrasives of the clay were able to bring back the finish to a degree.
Gadsan, good explanation!
Attachments
imported_Bence
New member
Certain water etchings are very serious, below surface defects. In this case, deep polishing (with a rotary) is necessary to get rid of the problem. The damage can be indeed that deep, that it can not be removed without compromising the integrity of the finish. I have two ugly spots behind my windshield washer jets. They are too deep to remove, so I have to live with them.
The decon is great when you have to clean/remove calcium deposits or milder water spots.
The decon is great when you have to clean/remove calcium deposits or milder water spots.
SVR
Dream Machines
Clay will do for me. Any acidic product is not welcome in my garage and I can't see it not being able to remove everything.
If a car is bad enough, I will clay, then do the first step polish with the rotary, wipe off residue and then clay again with same or softer clay. I also add polish to the surface which is coated in lube and that allows it to cut down or prevent marring and possibly strengthen the clay's abrasiveness. Mostly poorboys pro polish or SSR 1. is used with clay
Once polishing steps are finished, I may even do a sonus green clay to guarantee all sub surface crap is removed. It's only done once in a blue moon though.
FK1 might be a great product but because it's acidic, what it's ingredients are and the time required for the three step system. It's not an option I will take.
If a car is bad enough, I will clay, then do the first step polish with the rotary, wipe off residue and then clay again with same or softer clay. I also add polish to the surface which is coated in lube and that allows it to cut down or prevent marring and possibly strengthen the clay's abrasiveness. Mostly poorboys pro polish or SSR 1. is used with clay
Once polishing steps are finished, I may even do a sonus green clay to guarantee all sub surface crap is removed. It's only done once in a blue moon though.
FK1 might be a great product but because it's acidic, what it's ingredients are and the time required for the three step system. It's not an option I will take.
just to add my .02, i mentioned before in another thread a comment about automagics blue clay, stating that it was a medium grade and was corrected by dave fermani ( an avid and expierienced) automagic user , who stated it was a milder clay, and that automagic has a more agressive redish/purple clay. I just used this clay today and it is by far extreamly more agressive and did in fact (either on its own or from the contaminiants) marr the paint significantly. However I followed this process by 5 steps of polishing using a rotary and starting off with a twisted wool pad, so the scratches didnt matter, and the vehicle needed it baaaadly. I wish I had the FK system to try out, it probably would have saved me some time. . . .
tom p.
Active member
MMasz said:
There's no way the two are comparable or equivalent. Many folks here will say claying doesn't remove your LSP. The FK decon products are serious business and are effective from my limited experience. I think Part 1 is an awesome product to use prior to re-establishing your baseline coatings.
imported_Bence
New member
SVR, there are situations when the ferrous contamination sits too deeply to be removed with clay. Rust blooming will come back until you etch the ferrous particles away with a decon.
Accumulator
Well-known member
Disclaimer: I've only used the decontamination system from AutoInt/ValueGuared ("ABC"), I have not tried the FinishKare one.
The acid in the decontamination system I've used is supposed to be more aggressive than the FK stuff (FK makes a big deal out of this), but it's never caused any problems for me. As Bence mentioned, the acids are so mild that it's a good idea to clay while they're dwelling.
When I only used clays and paint cleaners, I had recurring rust blooms- some of them would always come back. Since I've been treating our new vehicles with the decontamination system *and* the clay, no more recurring rust blooms- I now appear to be truly solving the problem in a permanent way.
Oh, and while I'm the guy who always clays without disturbing his LSPs, it *does* depend on the clay and how you use it. I recently used a clay that was (much) more aggressive than I'd expected and I marred up the paint quite significantly
First time in forever that it's happened to me, but it did. I've been claying without problems since the stuff came out in the early '90s and it's not like I did anything different that time, just failed to consider the potential abrasiveness of the clay...gotta watch those assumptions 
04MC- Sounds to me like the paint is etched and it's gonna stay that way. These products don't *correct* defects like that, they stop the processes that cause the defects. I have my doubts about the need to use a decontamination system on exisiting etching like yours..they say it'll keep things from getting worse, but *IMO* it won't get worse; the damage is done and that's that. Just IMO though.
The acid in the decontamination system I've used is supposed to be more aggressive than the FK stuff (FK makes a big deal out of this), but it's never caused any problems for me. As Bence mentioned, the acids are so mild that it's a good idea to clay while they're dwelling.
When I only used clays and paint cleaners, I had recurring rust blooms- some of them would always come back. Since I've been treating our new vehicles with the decontamination system *and* the clay, no more recurring rust blooms- I now appear to be truly solving the problem in a permanent way.
Oh, and while I'm the guy who always clays without disturbing his LSPs, it *does* depend on the clay and how you use it. I recently used a clay that was (much) more aggressive than I'd expected and I marred up the paint quite significantly
First time in forever that it's happened to me, but it did. I've been claying without problems since the stuff came out in the early '90s and it's not like I did anything different that time, just failed to consider the potential abrasiveness of the clay...gotta watch those assumptions 04MC- Sounds to me like the paint is etched and it's gonna stay that way. These products don't *correct* defects like that, they stop the processes that cause the defects. I have my doubts about the need to use a decontamination system on exisiting etching like yours..they say it'll keep things from getting worse, but *IMO* it won't get worse; the damage is done and that's that. Just IMO though.
Junebug
JAFO
Can't you just give a car the old vinagar treatment and or clay?