First Orbital experience and a few questions

H

Hemi57

New member
I used the orbital on Saturday for a bit of a try out and wet the pad before I started. I used a green Arnold pad and I was using 3M Perfect-it III extra cut rubbing compound which is equivalent to Megs #84 or #4, going from the Autopia cross reference table. I only used speed setting number 1, as my Hitachi is rated at 6,500 to 11,000 RPM. Like a lot of people have said on Autopia, it seems to be fool proof as I was trying to work right up to the edges and they did not seem to be any indication that I was going to cut through the paint (although some of the edges are already cut through anyway). I applied a thin circle of polish about 3/4 the way out to the edge of the pad.



As the paint on my old Ute (pick-up to North Americans, Ute is short of "Utility") is oxidised I was finding that the pad was clogging fair quickly, so I was cleaning it with running water every 1/4 area of the bonnet (hood to you North Americans).



After washing the pad each time I spun it up on the machine and it threw most of the water off. I did have a lot of trouble trying the centre the pad on the backing plate. The Arnold pads seem to have the velcro stuck on off centre so there is not a good reference point when attaching to the backing plate but the pad seemed to find it's own position when you start to use it.



The results were promising. Unfortunately I started a bit late in the afternoon and the light started to fade. Considering the polish I was using is fairly aggressive it seems to progressively improve the surface and not tear into the paint like I would expect a Rotary to do. When I stopped on each section the surface of the pad was still damp to touch and I used a finishing buffing cloth by hand.



So I have the following questions:



Would you expect the pads to clog so quickly?

Does anyone have any comments about using a damp pad?

Should I increase the speed and polish until the product is no longer visible?

Any other comments to help an Orbital nooby?
 
I used the orbital on Saturday for a bit of a try out and wet the pad before I started. I used a green Arnold pad and I was using 3M Perfect-it III extra cut rubbing compound which is equivalent to Megs #84 or #4, going from the Autopia cross reference table. I only used speed setting number 1, as my Hitachi is rated at 6,500 to 11,000 RPM. Like a lot of people have said on Autopia, it seems to be fool proof as I was trying to work right up to the edges and they did not seem to be any indication that I was going to cut through the paint (although some of the edges are already cut through anyway). I applied a thin circle of polish about 3/4 the way out to the edge of the pad.



As the paint on my old Ute (pick-up to North Americans, Ute is short of "Utility") is oxidised I was finding that the pad was clogging fair quickly, so I was cleaning it with running water every 1/4 area of the bonnet (hood to you North Americans).



After washing the pad each time I spun it up on the machine and it threw most of the water off. I did have a lot of trouble trying the centre the pad on the backing plate. The Arnold pads seem to have the velcro stuck on off centre so there is not a good reference point when attaching to the backing plate but the pad seemed to find it's own position when you start to use it.



The results were promising. Unfortunately I started a bit late in the afternoon and the light started to fade. Considering the polish I was using is fairly aggressive it seems to progressively improve the surface and not tear into the paint like I would expect a Rotary to do. When I stopped on each section the surface of the pad was still damp to touch and I used a finishing buffing cloth by hand.



So I have the following questions:



Would you expect the pads to clog so quickly?

Does anyone have any comments about using a damp pad?

Should I increase the speed and polish until the product is no longer visible?

Any other comments to help an Orbital nooby?
 
are you sure about the speeds on your Hitachi? 11000 rpm is WAY to high!



You should be down in the 1000 - 2000 rpm range. If the lowest setting you have is 6500, then is it really a polisher or is it a grinder of some sort. Since you are just starting out, I would keep the speeds in the 1000-1200 rpm range.



I have not used 3M, but most polishes don't like water. Spritzing your pad with QD or water, or in your case, washing the pad in the middle of the detail, could be one of your problems. If the pad gums up, spur the pad with a pad spur or if you dont have one, use an old toothbrush or something that won't harm the pad but is stiff enough to brush off the caked on polish. If the pad is gumming up excessively, I would use multiple pads to complete a car.
 
are you sure about the speeds on your Hitachi? 11000 rpm is WAY to high!



You should be down in the 1000 - 2000 rpm range. If the lowest setting you have is 6500, then is it really a polisher or is it a grinder of some sort. Since you are just starting out, I would keep the speeds in the 1000-1200 rpm range.



I have not used 3M, but most polishes don't like water. Spritzing your pad with QD or water, or in your case, washing the pad in the middle of the detail, could be one of your problems. If the pad gums up, spur the pad with a pad spur or if you dont have one, use an old toothbrush or something that won't harm the pad but is stiff enough to brush off the caked on polish. If the pad is gumming up excessively, I would use multiple pads to complete a car.
 
Hemi57 said:
So I have the following questions:



Would you expect the pads to clog so quickly?

Does anyone have any comments about using a damp pad?

Any other comments to help an Orbital nooby?
Click to expand...



Hi Hemi57 :woot:



I have read that with severe oxidation the pads will clog very fast becuase you are removing the dead paint. Did you clay first?

Check your PM's I sent you a link to a thread talking about priming pads. I remember reading that some members wash their pads during a detail and then use them again with no problems. toyemp has some good points about the polish guming up. Try spuring the pad with a stiff brush.

This is how I center those pads (this might be tough to describe)

Using only your thumbs and pointer fingers. Hold your fingers like a little kid would make a gun with only his hands. Rotate your "guns" toward each other so that your thumbs and pointer fingers are forming a diamond. Use that diamond to pick up the pad with your other fingers just hanging lose. Use your other three fingers and the bottom edges of your palms to center the pad over the backing plate and guide it on. With a little work you wont have any problems. I use this method to center the pads on my rotary.

Good luck and keep us posted! You are now in the trial and error stage! It will only get better from here :woohoo:
 
Hemi57 said:
So I have the following questions:



Would you expect the pads to clog so quickly?

Does anyone have any comments about using a damp pad?

Any other comments to help an Orbital nooby?
Click to expand...



Hi Hemi57 :woot:



I have read that with severe oxidation the pads will clog very fast becuase you are removing the dead paint. Did you clay first?

Check your PM's I sent you a link to a thread talking about priming pads. I remember reading that some members wash their pads during a detail and then use them again with no problems. toyemp has some good points about the polish guming up. Try spuring the pad with a stiff brush.

This is how I center those pads (this might be tough to describe)

Using only your thumbs and pointer fingers. Hold your fingers like a little kid would make a gun with only his hands. Rotate your "guns" toward each other so that your thumbs and pointer fingers are forming a diamond. Use that diamond to pick up the pad with your other fingers just hanging lose. Use your other three fingers and the bottom edges of your palms to center the pad over the backing plate and guide it on. With a little work you wont have any problems. I use this method to center the pads on my rotary.

Good luck and keep us posted! You are now in the trial and error stage! It will only get better from here :woohoo:
 
Sullybob, yeah I did see your message thanks but that was after I had my first "run". I dropped you a personal reply too. Thanks for the above advice :). No I didn't clay first, just rushed in with the machine.



toyemp, we cannot get the PC here in Australia and a number of OZ based Autopians use the Hitachi. It is called a "Random Orbital Sander" and the specs (6,500 - 11,000 RPM) really don't seem to match reality. I found it very workable and it seems to rotate at a quite slow rate under load. As I described, the pad was still damp after quite a bit of time polishing and did not get hot at all. Maybe that is part of my learning process and next time I will leave it on the surface longer? Now I have done a first pass (removed most of the oxidisation) I can try again next weekend.
 
Sullybob, yeah I did see your message thanks but that was after I had my first "run". I dropped you a personal reply too. Thanks for the above advice :). No I didn't clay first, just rushed in with the machine.



toyemp, we cannot get the PC here in Australia and a number of OZ based Autopians use the Hitachi. It is called a "Random Orbital Sander" and the specs (6,500 - 11,000 RPM) really don't seem to match reality. I found it very workable and it seems to rotate at a quite slow rate under load. As I described, the pad was still damp after quite a bit of time polishing and did not get hot at all. Maybe that is part of my learning process and next time I will leave it on the surface longer? Now I have done a first pass (removed most of the oxidisation) I can try again next weekend.
 
Got it. I thought you were using a regular rotary, not a random orbit sander. Out of curiosity, what is the model # of your unit. I looked for a similar model on Hitachi's website but couldn't locate something that would match your description.



Assuming that the Hitachi is similar to a PC, centering of the pad is not as critical as it would be if it was a true orbital. Since the pad "jiggles" (for lack of a better word...) all over the place anyways, it probably is pretty forgiving if it is slightly off-center. At least the PC is.



Another possible cause of the gumming you are experiencing is that you may be using too much product. I find that with most polishes, once the pad is primed, only a small amount (I would normally say "nickel sized" but since you are down under, I don't know if you know how big a nickel is) about 1.5cm in diameter for each additional section (assuming I recall my metric system :D )



Each polish works a little differently, but for most of them, you should work a polish until it just turns translucent but is still a little "wet". In most cases, if you work the polish all the way until it disappears, then you have gone too far.
 
Got it. I thought you were using a regular rotary, not a random orbit sander. Out of curiosity, what is the model # of your unit. I looked for a similar model on Hitachi's website but couldn't locate something that would match your description.



Assuming that the Hitachi is similar to a PC, centering of the pad is not as critical as it would be if it was a true orbital. Since the pad "jiggles" (for lack of a better word...) all over the place anyways, it probably is pretty forgiving if it is slightly off-center. At least the PC is.



Another possible cause of the gumming you are experiencing is that you may be using too much product. I find that with most polishes, once the pad is primed, only a small amount (I would normally say "nickel sized" but since you are down under, I don't know if you know how big a nickel is) about 1.5cm in diameter for each additional section (assuming I recall my metric system :D )



Each polish works a little differently, but for most of them, you should work a polish until it just turns translucent but is still a little "wet". In most cases, if you work the polish all the way until it disappears, then you have gone too far.
 
The Hitachi is FSV13Y. Cost me A$140 which equates to about US$105. Seems like a nice unit.



Yep, I am familiar with your Nickle and you have a good memory for the metric measurement system, actually better than me who lives with it every day, but was raised in my early years with Imperial. I always find I understand feet and inches better. :doh



Another thing, it sounds like I used way too much product. I put a thin stripe around the whole pad.



As Shawn said, I am in the trial & error stage.
 
The Hitachi is FSV13Y. Cost me A$140 which equates to about US$105. Seems like a nice unit.



Yep, I am familiar with your Nickle and you have a good memory for the metric measurement system, actually better than me who lives with it every day, but was raised in my early years with Imperial. I always find I understand feet and inches better. :doh



Another thing, it sounds like I used way too much product. I put a thin stripe around the whole pad.



As Shawn said, I am in the trial & error stage.
 
Hemi57 did you try to "spur" your pad with a brush?

So no more polishing untill next weekend? Wash and dry your pads. Are you using a cutting pad or a polishing pad?
 
Hemi57 did you try to "spur" your pad with a brush?

So no more polishing untill next weekend? Wash and dry your pads. Are you using a cutting pad or a polishing pad?
 
Sullybob said:
Hemi57 did you try to "spur" your pad with a brush?

So no more polishing untill next weekend? Wash and dry your pads. Are you using a cutting pad or a polishing pad?
Click to expand...



Shawn, no I didn't try spurring the pad but that will be on the agenda for the next session. I was using only 1 pad, the green Arnold pad which is rated for cutting.
 
Sullybob said:
Hemi57 did you try to "spur" your pad with a brush?

So no more polishing untill next weekend? Wash and dry your pads. Are you using a cutting pad or a polishing pad?
Click to expand...



Shawn, no I didn't try spurring the pad but that will be on the agenda for the next session. I was using only 1 pad, the green Arnold pad which is rated for cutting.
 
Sullybob said:
The green pad is rated for swirl removal/polishing and the yellow is rated at cutting. At least according to

Try the yellow pad next time it should work faster.
Click to expand...



Shawn, I checked the pack again and you are of course right :clap:



I was a bit confused by the printing on the pack which seemed at first glance to have the green and yellow pads to be used for the same application. I check the printing last night and saw additional information on the "ppi" rating of each and can now understand that the yellow is coarser. :up
 
That Hitachi is similar specs to my PC 333 Random Orbital Sander, that's one heck of a finishing sander you have, won't do much for polishing but great for woodworking. The problem with these type of finishing sanders for polishing is they do very small orbits at very high speed. I tried mine for the fun of it and it didn't work out very well, not for polishing out swirls and stuff. If you want a random orbital for polishing you need one that operates at about half that speed with larger orbits like the PC 7336. As for polish cloggin the pad, maybe you are using too much product. I used a small circle on the pad to do 1/4 of hood. If it's drying too quick, spritz the pad with detailing spray to keep it moist. Never wash the pads and use a wet pad, you'll damage the velcro backing. I would be careful about using too aggresive of a product, it may damage your clear coat if that truck has a clearcoat.
 
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