Finishing with a Rotary

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imported_d00t

New member
So this weekend I was working on an '08 Chicane Silver S2000 (C&B will be up when I get time!) and it only needed a one step polish, so I used my metabo, with a White CCS 5.5" pad, and PO106FA. The thing is, it left the slightest, but in my eyes, noticeable holograms on some parts of the hood/fenders. Why is it hologramming with such a light combo? I know that it requires a lot of skill and practice to finish down with a rotary without going to something like a PC to finish down to get ride of things like buffer trails.



The SAME thing happened to the black SI I detailed last week, I work with him, so I was walking by one afternoon and I noticed the SLIGHTEST but noticeable holograms that didn't come out in the final pics. So I told him (at no charge since it's my fault) i needed to re-do parts of his car, he said do what you gotta do!



But my main question is does anyone have any tips to finish with the rotary, or should I just finish with my PC until I get more time under my belt?



Thanks!
 
Nice that you noticed and are going to correct it.:xyxthumbs



Remember Honda paint is typically very soft so a white pad is just too abrasive to finish down with on Honda paint even with a final polish. If it were a Corvette or Audi then it would probably have worked perfectly since the clear is so much harder.



Try using that same polish but with a black finishing pad instead. I think you'll get the perfect results you're looking for.



Josh
 
Makes sense! Thanks Josh!



Would it almost be worth it to step down from 106FA+White to 85rd+black or is 106FA+black good enough? If I have to make that extra polishing step.. might as well make it look as good as possible! ;).



So is it safe to say that when working on a honda, it's hard to do a one-step? or If you're only charged for a one-step, use a PC?
 
I did actually. It was around 4pm and the sun was still pretty high. I have after shots of almost every panel, and nothing showed in the pictures, and when I inspected it.
 
d00t said:
I did actually. It was around 4pm and the sun was still pretty high. I have after shots of almost every panel, and nothing showed in the pictures, and when I inspected it.
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That's because there are lubricating oils in nearly every single compound and abrasive polish on the market and those lubes are actually designed to disipate the heat but also mask minor defects.



You have to either wait for them to evaporate or wipe them off with a solvent to remove the oils to see the true condition of the finish.



Josh
 
JoshVette said:
That's because there are lubricating oils in nearly every single compound and abrasive polish on the market and those lubes are actually designed to disipate the heat but also mask minor defects.



You have to either wait for them to evaporate or wipe them off with a solvent to remove the oils to see the true condition of the finish.



Josh
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Hence IPA wipdedowns! Correct? I was still iffy on using IPA or not, but I think I'm sold on using it from now on. Learn something new every day..



But to my other question about one steps with soft paint, any ideas/insight?
 
The lubricating oils can either mask or create the illusion of holograms, it can go both ways. Only way to find out is to do an IPA or Prep-sol wipedown.
 
There are a few very good posts here, by TH0001 I think, about how the polish lubricants fill in the pad abrasions (holograms) and will mask them temporarily. Since holograms, compared to swirls or marring are very shallow, they are more easily filled than swirls and marring. What you need to do to prevent this is use a very mild polish with a pad with very little to no mechanical abrasion as your final step, inspect with IPA or Prep Sol too.



Also, make sure not to go from compound -> finishing polish or polish, but to do compound -> polish -> finishing polish.
 
Here's a method I'm using for cars with very soft clear coats: Because most of the compounds in the shop are too abrasive (3M Extra Cut, M105, etc) for soft clear, I've found that using 3M SRC and wool will correct surface defects without adding additional swirls.



Now, what I do after that is: using a polish pad like the Meg's 8006 in the picture or a finish pad, I spritz it with Detail Spray and work the area I've just finished. It clears out any residue and allows me to see my work. If I've wetsanded, I do an alcohol wipedown to make sure I didn't leave any haze.



06530iBlackProductandPadsUsed.jpg




Compounding in progress



06530iPartialcompoundRockerPanel.jpg




06530iPartialcompoundDriverDoor.jpg




Toto
 
JoshVette said:
Nice that you noticed and are going to correct it.:xyxthumbs



Remember Honda paint is typically very soft so a white pad is just too abrasive to finish down with on Honda paint even with a final polish. If it were a Corvette or Audi then it would probably have worked perfectly since the clear is so much harder.



Try using that same polish but with a black finishing pad instead. I think you'll get the perfect results you're looking for.



Josh
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Are you saying to use the black finishing pad on the rotary or the pc? Also what product would you use with the black pad?
 
UFSE on a black finishing pad via rotary or DA will blow your mind! I'm sure 85RD gives similar results.



Even a noob like me can do it via rotary!!!!
 
JoshVette said:
Yes, black pad on the rotary with a final polish will blow you away.:bigups
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what is your prefered method for preventing buffer trails? I always keep the rotary centered, I use smaller pads to prevent riding the edges, and I keep my speeds low, but sometimes I still see them and have to resort to the pc. Any suggestions? Maybe it is that my pad isn't damp enough, but if I get any damper the product slings, and I try to use the suggested dime size of product then smear and kick up the rpm's then tapper down the speed... thx
 
ABQDetailer said:
UFSE on a black finishing pad via rotary or DA will blow your mind! I'm sure 85RD gives similar results.



Even a noob like me can do it via rotary!!!!
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UF-SE will fill like nobodies bussiness and it is VERY difficult to remove the oils (even after numerous wipe downs with some pretty harsh solvents). Best bet, pull it in the sun for a day with no LSP and re-inspect. You will be amazed at how much is still left (maybe).



I see people going from compound to UF, and I can only shake my head. In 3 months the car will look like it has only been compounded. Your best bet is to only use UF-SE for finishing and NEVER trust it for defect removal. Even then you might find some light pad abrasion marring 3 months down the road.
 
d00t said:
I did actually. It was around 4pm and the sun was still pretty high. I have after shots of almost every panel, and nothing showed in the pictures, and when I inspected it.
Click to expand...



Very typical for the Menzerna finishing polishes. As a side, the distributor of Menzerna came on here and blasted forum members, stating that we are not good enough to use his products. He even said that this problem you had doesn't occur.



The reason I asked if you inspected the paint before is because you are having a typical case of "white pad filling". The LC white pad is a polishing pad, and while you can finish on a porter cable (inessence creating one big hologram that isn't visible) on a rotary, the pad is going to abrade the paint in the direction of the fixed rotation.



This marring is very slight and mineral oil and other lubricants will act to stick into these abrasions. Even with heavy solvents and alcohol you probably will have a hard time removing all of it. When I saw you used the white pad to finish, this is what prompted me to question you.



To finish out with a rotary you are going to need



a) a pad with little to no mechanical abrasion

b) a polish with little cut and one that breaks down easily and quickly, but has a long play time.



You will need to



a) start the polish at 1500 rpm or so and apply a little pressure to head of the rotary (5 pounds will work). This will "help" the pad produce enough bite to begin to fracture the abrasives. For the product to finish out completely perfect you will need to break the abrasives all the way down.



b) make smooth, steady passes with the pad flat. As the polish begins to clear up reduce pressure, then reduce RPM everytime you polish the whole area. Work the dial back to 1000 rpm or so with no pressure.



c) Make a couple of very light, slow passes over the area to ensure the polish is fully broken down and the paint is highly jewelled.
 
^That's exactly what I was looking for when I was reading through this thread. I was having the same problem on a Bimmer, finishing it with the 3m Grey pad and 106FF. It would leave slight halograms like streaks on the paint. It's happened to the last 2 details I've done and it's basically getting annoying.



What pad do you recommend and which finishing polish?
 
artikxscout said:
^That's exactly what I was looking for when I was reading through this thread. I was having the same problem on a Bimmer, finishing it with the 3m Grey pad and 106FF. It would leave slight halograms like streaks on the paint. It's happened to the last 2 details I've done and it's basically getting annoying.



What pad do you recommend and which finishing polish?
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I'm finishing a black 06' 530i and here's what I'm going to do today. The car has been compounded twice: first with 3M Extra Cut (it had very heavy swirls and scratches) and wool. Then I used 3M Perfect-It 3000 compound and foam to refine the finish.



With Menzerna 106ff, I find you have to work the product at slow speed with a very soft pad. I use the 3M Ultrafina Blue Foam for this and work at 1,000 rpm until the product clears on the paint.



Toto
 
TH0001 said:
UF-SE will fill like nobodies bussiness and it is VERY difficult to remove the oils (even after numerous wipe downs with some pretty harsh solvents). Best bet, pull it in the sun for a day with no LSP and re-inspect. You will be amazed at how much is still left (maybe).



I see people going from compound to UF, and I can only shake my head. In 3 months the car will look like it has only been compounded. Your best bet is to only use UF-SE for finishing and NEVER trust it for defect removal. Even then you might find some light pad abrasion marring 3 months down the road.
Click to expand...



Todd -



Weren't you a big UFSE fan at one point? I think I bought a bottle just because you recommended it...which wasn't cheap, lol!
 
mshu7 said:
Todd -



Weren't you a big UFSE fan at one point? I think I bought a bottle just because you recommended it...which wasn't cheap, lol!
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Todd can correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think he is saying UFSE is a bad product. I think he is saying if used incrorrectly, it will fill. You shouldn't compound a panel, then go to UFSE. You need another step in between...Meg's 83, SIP, etc...



I think a lot of people think UFSE is the silver bullet to finishing out holigram free with a rotary, and the jump to it too early in the polishing process.
 
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