Factory paint, heavy orange peel, what options do I have?

M

mhuie

New member
I bought an 01 740 last year. I had it detailed after I bought it, however the orange peel is pretty bad and is starting to drive me nuts. The paint is all factory.



The only tool I have is a PC, which I'm pretty proficient at. First, do I need to wetsand, or is there some heavy compound/pad combo that I should try first? Currently I have SIP and 106FF.



If I need to wetsand, is this something that I could do myself? If so, would I need a rotary or would my PC work? (Time taken isnt an issue).
 
I would leave it alone, and learn to live with the peel. Wet-sanding the car could eventually lead to pre-mature failure of the clear coat. This is especially true with a seven year old used car of which you do not know the exact history. .
 
Thanks for the reply, what's the ballpark price of having a decent detailer wetsand/polish the whole car?



It really bugs me that my 13 year old car looks worlds better than my "new to me" car.
 
mhuie said:
Thanks for the reply, what's the ballpark price of having a decent detailer wetsand/polish the whole car?



It really bugs me that my 13 year old car looks worlds better than my "new to me" car.
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800+ Personally, I would not touch the paint.
 
I agree with brwill and awahl. I dont understand, why would you want a "decent" detailer to wet sand a used 7 year old car? Sounds like you're just asking for trouble. You could offer me 1k and I wouldnt wet sand that thing. Just isnt a good idea.
 
D&D Auto Detail said:
I agree with brwill and awahl. I dont understand, why would you want a "decent" detailer to wet sand a used 7 year old car? Sounds like you're just asking for trouble. You could offer me 1k and I wouldnt wet sand that thing. Just isnt a good idea.
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Just striving for "perfection" like your tag says. Last time I checked, there was plenty of clear on the car to wetsand, I'm just trying to get my car better than it currently is. If you wouldn't wetsand, what would you do?
 
I somewhat agree with the above posts, but it's your car. I have spot wet sanded many cars over the years and haven't seen any long term damage. These days i remove less than i did in the past, just to be on the safe side.



If you want to try it with the PC, rotary much better, just try one panel or spot yourself. Stay away from edges and places that the PC can't go. Start with 2000 grit and finish with 2500 or 3000 grit and see how it goes. Plan on waxing it for the rest of it's life.
 
You could sand to reduce some of the orange peel, but it will still be there.



Where does the concept of this paint being 7 years old have to do with anything? Is the paint thickness getting thinner over time?? Is paint more fragile as it approaches the decade mark? I'm having a hard time grasping this.



I'd Pm Grouse and get his advise (he's in Seattle). He's a German paint specialist. :D
 
David Fermani said:
You could sand to reduce some of the orange peel, but it will still be there.



Where does the concept of this paint being 7 years old have to do with anything? Is the paint thickness getting thinner over time?? Is paint more fragile as it approaches the decade mark? I'm having a hard time grasping this.



I'd Pm Grouse and get his advise (he's in Seattle). He's a German paint specialist. :D
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Its not so much as how old the paint is, more that he doesnt know whats been done to it over the years and I doubt he has a paint gauge. I just dont think wet sanding a daily driver to reduce orange peel is a good idea in general. Would you disagree?
 
What happens if the orange peel is on the paint and not the clear? Then he'd be out of luck sanding, right? Or does peel occur only on the clear?
 
D&D Auto Detail said:
Its not so much as how old the paint is, more that he doesnt know whats been done to it over the years and I doubt he has a paint gauge. I just dont think wet sanding a daily driver to reduce orange peel is a good idea in general. Would you disagree?
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I also doubt he has a paint guage, but I also doubt he'd be doing the work(especially with a PC). Sanding paint "in general" isn't a good idea or recommendation, but it doen't mean it can't be done safely. If he's serious enough to consider this procedure, I'd suggest that he takes it to someone who has a PTG and knows what he's doing. Most high end painters (and detailers who do serious corrections regularly) have PTG now a days for warranty reasons.



If you stay within the manufacturers tolerances, there won't be a problem. BMW actually has some of the thickness film builds in the industry (6-7 mils total) as well as some of the flattest finishes. If it measures out fine, I don't see anything wrong with buzzing it down with 1500 and then 3000 (with a DA of course). I'd suggest doing measurements before, during and after the process. Sanding a dark colored car can really bring out alot of brilliance an I'm sure would greatly improve it's look.
 
I looked into this a while back. Post is in the forum somewhere. Too dangerous to to myself. Cost to have a truly reputable shop do it was approx $1400. Either way you lose so much clear coat it is flat out crazy.



I polished and jeweled my LS430 down to a mirror using Menz and Ultrafina, and then alternate DWG and UPGP as my protection. Thing looks amazing. Had someone ask me if I purchased a new one.



I am glad I did what I did.



One more piece of advice. Use a Flex or rotary. The PC just isn't up to the challenge (IMO).
 
I don't know about all BMW's but I measured my friends 2001 325 and it ran between 4.5-5 mils. It was bought new and he never did any sanding or aggressive compounding to it.



Regardless, if OP is severe you won't be able to remove it entirely and I certainly wouldn't attempt this without a paint thickness gauge. The maximum total lifetime paint that can be removed is between .3 to .5 mil before that paint will be damaged. The trouble with doing an older car that you don't know it's history, i.e. how much paint has already been removed, hence you might easily cause cc failure. The better course would be to have it sanded and re-cleared. This probably is not cost effective on a 7 year old car unless it is in top condition and you plan on keeping it for a long time.



I'd have to agree with the consensus. I'd live with it.
 
jfelbab said:
Regardless, if OP is severe you won't be able to remove it entirely and I certainly wouldn't attempt this without a paint thickness gauge. The maximum total lifetime paint that can be removed is between .3 to .5 mil before that paint will be damaged. The trouble with doing an older car that you don't know it's history, i.e. how much paint has already been removed, hence you might easily cause cc failure. The better course would be to have it sanded and re-cleared. This probably is not cost effective on a 7 year old car unless it is in top condition and you plan on keeping it for a long time.



I'd have to agree with the consensus. I'd live with it.
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i agree. :secret
 
detaildoc said:
I agree with leaving it a alone, not worth the risk. Unfortunately, on BMWs orange peel is a standard option.
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I'd guesstimate 95% of the cars I see have orange peel. It's a shame that the factories put them out like that.
 
D&D Auto Detail said:
Its not so much as how old the paint is, more that he doesnt know whats been done to it over the years and I doubt he has a paint gauge. I just dont think wet sanding a daily driver to reduce orange peel is a good idea in general. Would you disagree?
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I dont have a paint gauge, but like I said, I had it detailed (by Grouse no less), and he measured the paint.
 
My e92 measures 4.4 mil on average, but it is much higher on the vertical panels, especially the area over the body line on the doors (almost 6 mil there). Most last gen BMWs seem similar (all the 5s I've measured have been over 4.5 mil, same with 7s). On the last gen 7 I really have no idea, but someone with a PTG could easily check.



I'd say you're *probably* ok to wetsand conservatively and with a lot of measuring, but the job will be quite involved, and the OP will not be removed entirely.



Edit: FWIW, on my car I live with the OP. I plan on keeping it, so even with a good amount of clear to spare I am not willing to remove any without the need to (from marring, of course).
 
Heatgain said:
I'd guesstimate 95% of the cars I see have orange peel. It's a shame that the factories put them out like that.
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Orange peel is the answer for a not-so-perfect panel. Most people think that is accidental paint defect, but it has a purpose ... deflect the light around a panel defect such as lows, wrinkles, buckles, etc. I have only seen a few cars that are orange peel free and they have been high-end vehicles.
 
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