Email from 3m re: PI III finishing Glaze

R

Re-Lax

New member
Thought I should share.



I emailed 3m last week about their Perfict It III Finishing glaze (not to be confused with the machine glaze) because I've heard a few good comments about it on this site and I can't help but buy any product anyone mentions. I asked them if 1. it contains any abrasives and 2 if applied over a wax or sealant, will it strip what's underneath?



Their response:

Thank you for contacting 3M Automotive Aftermarkets. 3M Finishing Glaze, p/n 05941 does not contain abrasives. It is designed to be used by hand or machine to product a high-gloss deep-luster finish. It will not remove any protective coating or wax. Please call or email for any other questions.



I think this is pretty significant because it means a glaze can be used over Klasse and Zaino without removing them. That means the shine and durability of those two products and the depth of a glaze. Sounds good to me.:D
 
Cool, I will stick to 3M for polishing products though. I have had a bad experience with the 3M Show car paste wax, just streaked and streaked! My experience with their polishes is first rate. I have used the 3M Finesse It II and 3M Imperial Microfinishing compound (medium cut) sure it takes a little while to break down with the PC but the resulting finish is good.



I just dropped $60 at the Autopia store for the Menzerna twins, a 10 oz. bottle of AIO, and a red apron :)



Then its off to PAL Automotive in Piscataway, NJ tomorrow afternoon. I just called them, they have 3M Perfect It III line!!!!! Especially the machine glaze!!!! :D :D I can't stop grinning. They also most of the Meguiar's Mirror Glaze and Body Shop line (asked about #83 DACP, they got it!) Then they also got clay magic! ugh, estimated $$$ spent there, about $70-$100. I can't wait!!!!! I forgot to ask about pads for my new rotary but I think they have some.



Then I am waiting for a coupon for CMA so I can get some more detailing stuff.



Gosh I am going into the poor house (spent $230 in less than 10 minutes, with another $150 going toward pads and polishes this week!)



Anyway, back to topic.



I'll see if PAL automotive has a small bottle of this finishing glaze so I can experiment a bit with it. Probably Klasse AIO, then the 3M glaze, then some P21S??



What kind of protection does it offer, polymer or carnauba??
 
The Finishing Glaze has given me the best finish so far, no only shine but also depth. It's not a pure glaze but more of a polymer/carnauba sealant. It's incredible the way it looks alone. I toped it with EX on my dark green Volvo.



Here´s a black roof with it:
 
jgv said:
The Finishing Glaze has given me the best finish so far, no only shine but also depth. It's not a pure glaze but more of a polymer/carnauba sealant. It's incredible the way it looks alone. I toped it with EX on my dark green Volvo...
Click to expand...



jgv,



Would you suggest/tried using it over existing sealant? I have klasse and EX on the cars already and was wondering if I could top them with the 3m (or would I need to remove the layers first and put it over maybe AIO then add EX). Thanks.
 
Don't know if it would bond correctly to the EX, anyway you could always try it.



The best results I had was using it immediately after the final polish with 3M PI-III Machine Polish, when the surface was VERY CLEAN. After applying it I was amazed with the result. In fact, the only improvement brought by the EX was on slickness.
 
hubris63 said:
Their response:

Thank you for contacting 3M Automotive Aftermarkets. 3M Finishing Glaze, p/n 05941 does not contain abrasives.
Click to expand...
I’m surprised at 3M saying that there are no abrasives in PI-3 FG. I spent a few hours this weekend playing with FG and MG, and the Finishing Glaze gave every indication of smoothing the underlying marring. More than once I PCd with FG until all marring appeared to be gone, and then washed the test area with a Dawn/water solution to get rid of the fillers and oils. I wanted to see how much polishing and how much filling was happening.



Each time the marring was less evident! I did this with both a white (mild cut) pad and a gray (no cut) pad, so IMO it wasn’t the pad doing the polishing. My impression was that it had about the same abrasiveness as GEPC or PUPP-C.



If the finishing glaze truly has no abrasives, then the fillers must be much more durable than the fillers in Imperial Hand Glaze. I’ve done enough Dawn wiping of IHG to prepare for a layer of Zaino that I’m pretty good at telling how much washing will remove the IHG oils and not remove the fillers. The strength of my Dawn/water solution and the amount of rubbing that I did would most certainly have removed most all of IHG’s fillers.



In my few hours of playing with PI-3 FG I was very impressed. As a final product before paint protection I think that it’s a little better than GEPC - which is an outstanding product.



One final after-thought - - IIRC I’ve seen posts where a person has called 3M and gotten one answer about their polishes/cleaners/glazes, and then called later and gotten differing info from another tech representative. Just something to think about.
 
The Finishing Glaze I have (P/N 09377) doesn't have abrasives. Both on the bootle and 3M UK website they say it provides a long lasting shine. I love it, way superior finish to most products I've tested.
 
After reading jgv’s post above, I took a closer look at my bottle of Perfect-It III Finishing Glaze (05941). In the fine print it says that it contains aluminum silicate clay and aluminum oxide. If I’m not mistaken both of these are the abrasives commonly used in automotive polishes.



I wouldn’t think that you could successfully top PI-3 FG with Zaino since FG contains petroleum distillates, glycerin, and carnauba. A light washing with a dishwashing detergent and a wipe with Z-6 would probably be needed to allow proper bonding.



It’s becoming more and more apparent to me that many (most?) vendors of car care products walk a thin line between misleading and lying when promoting their products. Look at all the misleading advertisements in the health care industry (make your _____ bigger or erase your wrinkles or lose that ugly fat), and there is close governmental scrutiny of health care products and their claims. There is little oversight of the car care industry. Many consumers don’t want to use an abrasive on their paint for fear of causing damage or wearing through the paint. IMO the statements that jgv refers to are just advertising hype.
 
Nick,

You made a good point; after the finish has been detailed and swirl free, I do not want to continue using abrasives either. I want to maintain the gloss, without more leveling.



I went and looked at my bottles of Meg's #3 Machine Glaze. It appears that it also has a little cut in it as well. I wonder if the cut is needed to properly adhere to the surface? Hence, it gives the glaze something to grab onto. But, I have yet to receive a definite answer as to how much paint is removed per application. I guess it depends on too many factors (pad, buffer etc.. .) to give an answer.



I wish someone here who has a paint thickness gauge could do an experiment on an old panel to see how much clear is actually removed under a given process.:nixweiss



Tim
 
Tim,

As a recovering Zainoholic I want the best surface possible under whatever I use as a protectant. I take a little different approach than you do. After I’ve removed all the micro-marring that I’m able to remove, then I want to move to a finer polish to further smooth the surface and increase the reflectivity - kinda like using jeweler’s rouge as the final step on a piece of gold.



I don’t think that the light cut is needed for adhesion. IHG sticks pretty well and it doesn’t seem to have any abrasives. A few months ago I did some comparative testing of IHG and GEPC - inspected the scratches with a loupe and the IHG did not appear to do any rounding of the edges of the scratch.



Do you know if a paint thickness gauge is sensitive enough to measure the thickness of multiple layers of Zaino or carnauba?



jgv,

My FG is lighter in color and thinner in consistency than AIO - but I can’t feel the abrasives in either one. I’ve attached pictures of the Yankee version of PI-3 FG.
 
jgv, comparing your link to 3M United Kingdom to 3M's US site is interesting:



1. 3M UK describes the Perfect-III System as, "The complete 3Mâ„¢ integrated system of chemical abrasives designed to remove imperfections from large areas of refinished and original paintwork." What is a chemical abrasive? The family includes clay, and I doubt that would have a "chemical abrasive," so maybe FG wouldn't have to have one either.



2. The UK site doesn't specify a 3M p/n, and has no link to something like MSDS.



3. The UK picture of a 1kg bottle is similar to the US 1 qt bottle, but clearly different. But you can't make much of that.



How come you always get the good stuff over there?
 
So basically 3m is full of it. My basic concern is not stripping my waxes/sealants, but a product that contains both isopropyl alcohol and abrasives will surely do just that. \i wonder if I can actually speak with someone there.
 
There isn’t much that you can put on top of carnauba except more carnauba or a QD. For the past few weeks I’ve been trying to learn how to put IHG between layers of carnauba, but it’s an uphill battle. <IMG SRC=http://home.jps.net/~ntaylor/images/frustrated.gif>
 
Hi Nick,



I think that you and I have a very similar approach when it comes to detailing.



Here is my ultra detail:



1. Wash with Meg's #62

2. Clay with Mothers Clay and Showtime or FI #34

3. DACP or FI-II Finishing Compound #05928

4. Swirl Free Polish #82 or PI-III MG #05937

5. S100 SEC

6. Machine Glaze #3 or #7,

7. #20

8. S100 PW



I will use the Rotary for steps 3 and 4(cutting and/or polishing pads, but Finishing pads with SFP #82-- a really good tip I received I while back!! An awesome finish!!)

PC for 5 and 6 (Polishing and finishing pads)

Hand for 7 and 8



Whew!! No wonder I am always so tired!!!

:shocked So, I would say that I am after perfection the same as you are!



In terms of the PTG, I am not referring to the thickness of the wax and/or polish but rather the clear coat. If someone first took a base reading on a panel then polished with #83 DACP. Then, took another reading after buffing it out with say a rotary, one could see what amount of clear was removed. My only question is that I do not know how many decimal points the meter can read. Ie., it would be useless if it only read to 1 decimal point.



It would be an interesting experiment!!:up :) :D
 
Gee, that stuff sounds like it'd strip off any existing protection and just replace it with its own (carnauba).



I think you've been given the "Joe Average Automated Response" :rolleyes: .....
 
Nick T. said:
There isn’t much that you can put on top of carnauba except more carnauba or a QD. For the past few weeks I’ve been trying to learn how to put IHG between layers of carnauba, but it’s an uphill battle. <IMG SRC=http://home.jps.net/~ntaylor/images/frustrated.gif>
Click to expand...



How would you compare finishing glaze to IHG in terms of:

1. Depth

2. Ease of use

3. Time it takes to apply and remove to an entire car



Thanks
 
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