Durability....why?

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imported_RaskyR1

New member
So I'm always seeing threads popping up talking about how long this new sealant lasts, and it beads water for like 9 months....blah blah blah


I guess I really just want to know why people are so into durable sealants. I mean what do they really offer other than long term water beading? It's not like they are to the point of stopping bird poo and hard water spots from etching the clear yet. Heck, they don't even seem to keep contaminates from bonding to the surface. So why is everyone always out to find the longest lasting sealant out there?

IMO a lot of them can actually hinder the correction process, and are a PITA to remove sometimes. So does it really make sense to use them? I've always believed that regular maintenance will keep a car looking better than using a super durable sealant every 6 months or so. By regular maintenance I'm talking about using a very mild cleaner every 3 months or so and then just a regular nuba in between.


Guess I'm just tired and bored at work today, but this has been on my mind and wanted to see what other though about it. :D

FWIW, I do like the ease of use a lot of them offer, as well as the super slick feel they leave. I just don?t think that durability is an important factor.

Wet-Ice rocks! :D


Rasky
 
Protection- a polymer sealant forma a molecular bond with any paint surface it?s applied too, so when it?s attacked by environmental elements (acid rain, bird excrement, etc) it provides a direct conduit to the clear coat paint surface, causing surface etching.

Carnauba wax molecules form a closed linked mesh like structure, which means that they only butt up together to protect the surface and the wax adheres to the paint surface. When attacked by environmental elements they have to compromise the wax surface before they can reach the clear coat paint surface and cause surface etching. Some natural waxes (Carnauba) are more resistant to environmental hazards then synthetics, although an Acrylic polymer offers limited resistance.

But the best way to avoid clear coat etching is too remove the environmental acid as soon as it?s noticed; but given enough time acid will compromise the clear coat whatever its protection.

No wax or polymer sealant can provide a permanent shield against acidic bird excrement, even the latest nanotechnology coating, CeramiClear only offers resistance to scratches, mars and acid etch, a product like Collinite 845 Insulator Wax is probably the most durable non-organic wax product, and but this may only provide enough of a barrier to enable it to be removed quickly before causing too much damage to the paint film surface.
 
I'm with you Rasky!!!!

I couldn't care less about durability. At least on my personal cars. I actually LIKE polishing, waxing, applying sealant, etc., etc. So If a sealant only lasts a month.... SO WHAT! By that time I'm doing it again anyway!:thumbup:

For my customers with high-end cars, they will rarely ask "How long will it last?".

But for your everyday mom and pop who have their cars detailed every 2 years, that's their VERY FIRST QUESTION!
 
I guess Im different.......I care about durability.

During the winter my truck gets washed and sealed right at the start before it gets super cold. After that I just dont have time. I snowmobile every weekend and take the truck north towing the trailer. The truck gets covered in salt and sand. If lucky I take the truck through the touchless every week or two. I like my sealant to last:D Add to that the fact that I life under the take off path of Logan airport so I do see a good bit of jet fuel too.
 
I care about durability too. I'd rather apply a more durable product and maintain with regular washes, QD and the occasional spray wax. My car isn't garaged, so using a short lived beauty wax is sorta pointless for me. I do wash frequently in the warmer months when I am not busy, I'm embarassed to drive a dirty car when the sun is shining. :D

In the winter (Buffalo, NY, think lake effect snow and salty roads for like 3-4 months straight), I'm lucky if I am able to hand wash it a few times a month. Up here, Collinite or Zaino and the touchless/DIY washes are your friend!
 
On daily drivers, that I drive through the winter, I do like to have some good protection on there.

I still do a mid-winter sealant application though!:D
 
This is a good thing to bring up Ive thought about this before! To me it isnt so much the fact that the paint still gets contaminated and the bird poop and such, its more that I dont need protection since I will always wax my car more often than needed :) so by the time the wax is getting weak ive already waxed a few extra times. I would rather a wax that looks and protects good but I dont have the need for long lasting products.

However, like luster said, with some people thats all they want. So if it gets them more money im sure they will continue with it
 
Keep them coming guys...nice to see some good feedback. :thumbup:

I definitely understand that come winter time, a lot of people can't wash often, so they use a durable sealant...but what is it really protecting the paint from? If you are not hand washing often, I believe you are still going to be SOL...

An example would be my g/f's car. I live in MN so we see tons of sand and salt over the winter. In the fall of '07 I polished my girls car and coated it with one coat of Z5 and two coats of Z2. It was not washed again for several months. In the mean time I washed my car every week to every two weeks and waxed each time with a cheap OTC wax. Come spring time my car was still perfect. After washing my girl?s car it still beaded water nicely and looked good, but it felt like sand paper from all the bonded contaminants! So what was the paint protected from?
 
Well for me being in the Sunshine State, alot of my customers look for durability and a great shine when their car/truck is done. Myself If I can get 90 days Plus out of it then I'm happy.
 
[After washing my girl?s car it still beaded water nicely and looked good, but it felt like sand paper from all the bonded contaminants! So what was the paint protected from?
]

Durability: [: able to exist for a long time without significant deterioration]Nearly all wax and sealant products exhibit water beading or sheeting initially (in fact so does a clean paint surface without an applied protection) this is due solely to surface tension, once the protection breaks down (abrasion from water, road dirt/grime and other airborne pollutants) it will cause a reduction in the surface tension and the beading will revert to its former level

If your goal is maximum protection, don't use water beading/sheeting as an indicator; while it?s true that it is a visual indicator that a wax / sealant previously applied is still present it does not guarantee that it?s actually providing protection. Beading on a paint surface is aesthetically pleasant, and many people equate beading with protection; there is a long standing myth ?that as long as a paint surface maintains beading it?s being protected from the elements? (much like the myth that ?the more soap produces suds the better the cleaning effect?)
 
When it comes to the non-winter months, I really don't give a darn about durability. My principal concern is appearance. I want my car to look good. If a wax gives me the look I want and like, then that is good enough for me, even if I have to wax again 4 weeks later.

Perhaps this is the reason why I do not understand the practice of first applying a sealant and topping it with a carnauba. If I prefer the look the carnauba gives, then why lay down the sealant at all? It only makes sense to me IF the sealant+carnauba combination actually looks different, and better, than two coats of the carnauba alone. Folks may recall my post a few weeks ago asking about the Fire & Ice combo, whether the combo actually looks different than two coats of Midnight Sun. I presume that it must and intend to put it to the test at the beginning of the fall.

But when it comes to the winter months, well, I do want a protective that will last several months, as I do not have a heated garage.
 
I just don't have the time to apply a wax every 4-6 weeks to our cars. With my fulltime job and detailing, I am working anywhere from 50-70 hours a week. I am lucky if I get to wash our cars every 3 weeks.

I have went 10 months with Z5pro x3 w/ ZFX topped with ZCS back in 06/07. Over the last 3-4 months, I was using Z8 every month or so.

This is what the claybar looked like after the trunk:

img1739gh7.jpg


This is what it looked like from the lower panels:

img1740xx5.jpg


So no issues for me of anything sticking to the paint.

Garage kept at night and yes no winter to speak of here.
 
Tom said:
jokeman, do the planes really ralph jp?
Click to expand...

I will have to take a picture for you guys of just how close to the house they come. If I had to guess....100 feet over the house/yard. When its windy and they abort landing and go wide open its right over the house.

One day I did my girls truck and, polished it and sealed it. That night we were sitting in the house watching TV and a plane aborted landing right before the house. She looked at me and laughed and said, "all your work today just went to hell" I went out in the morning and their was a film over the trucks. It's no fun!
 
gmblack3 said:
I just don't have the time to apply a wax every 4-6 weeks to our cars. With my fulltime job and detailing, I am working anywhere from 50-70 hours a week. I am lucky if I get to wash our cars every 3 weeks.

I have went 10 months with Z5pro x3 w/ ZFX topped with ZCS back in 06/07. Over the last 3-4 months, I was using Z8 every month or so.

So no issues for me of anything sticking to the paint.

Garage kept at night and yes no winter to speak of here.
Click to expand...

Commendable that you are working those kind of hours... I know exactly how that is. Until I retired, that was my life!

I agree about the Z5P... I've used it for about 9 years on our daily drivers. Although I never went through an entire without doing a mid-winter sealant refresher, I can see by your photos that it was definitely doing it's job!:thumbup:
 
Well, perhaps then, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I have used carnauba waxes before some of you were even born ! :) :) :)
It has looked great but has not kept looking great after a short time.

Then I had an excuse to go down to say, William Land Park in the summer, and do it again and hope to meet more car-buffs, or some young sweet things. :)

So, after awhile, you have the sweet thing of your dreams, you have lots of car-buff friends, so now you dont want to spend every month, etc., doing this drill, so you look for durability, gloss, UV protection, etc.., and granted, maybe you dont get all of these things, but you want them, right ?

So you look then, for products that last longer, find one that suits your particular needs, and use it, and sometimes try other stuff.

I just turned in a leased '05 Acura RL in Opulent Blue Pearl, an absolutely beautiful color that changed in light, etc., that had been Zaino'd a little over a year ago. It has had multiple coats of Zaino in the 4 years I owned it.

It stayed outside all last year, endured a few weeks of snow, freezing, rain, etc., and all I did was wash it and look at all the tiny tight beads of water.

I washed it, put some Z6 and 1 Z8 on it, took it back to the Dealer to turn it in and they were stunnned it looked so good for a 4 year old car and thought it had just been detailed.. I didnt want to break their bubble. :):):)

So to where we started, if it looks, acts good enough for your needs, then it must be the right product for you.

Once my detailing business gets going, I might try a few different things, and see what happens, but right now, for me, I am going with what I know works for longevity and what works for short term..

Back in the day, we really didnt have this many choices as there is today. I believe the best stuff all the car show guys had and used for a very temporary shiny slick surface was Meguiars No 7 seal and reseal glaze...

DanF
 
Hey Dan... I don't know if you remember my black 2001 Grand Prix.

I bought the car new and the day I bought it, I clayed it and put on 3 coats of Z5P. For the next 5 years I added a coat of Z5P every month.

Never polished the car, never clayed it again.

I have no pictures or proof, but that car had almost no swirls on the day I sold it 5 years later.:D

I didn't even OWN a PC or any polisher.

(I told you I loved to apply sealant/wax!)
 
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