Does wax over a sealant alter durability? Thoughts?

J

JoshABI

New member
Hey guys...I am currently prepping a car for my father to take to Houston with him. I won't be seeing it again for 8-10 months as he will leave it down there when he comes back, so I am getting it ready for a long time away from a detail. Well...I had a thought (dangerous, I know).



As I was laying on a 3rd coat of BFII, I thought about topping it with some P21s. Of course, from lurking here on the boards for the last 6 months, I know how popular carnauba-over-sealant systems are among the community. The thought that came into my head was: Does layering a carnauba over a sealant increase, decrease or have no effect on the actual durability of the sealant underneath? With the BFII & P21s combo, the wax is gone long before the sealant, that's obvious...but does the BFII last the same amount of time as if I only had BFII on the car, or does it last longer? Finally, is there a chance that the wax actually reduces the life of the BFII (due to solvents in the wax, etc.)? I'm not a chemist, but I figured this might spark a little free thought among the car care fanatics here. Please throw your thoughts in.



I did some searching and didn't find anything that really asked the same question, but I may have missed something. So forgive me ahead of time for double posting. Looking forward to your ideas...:idea
 
Unless you are using a liquid wax with solvents in it then I wouldn't think that a paste wax would affect sealant durability at all. I've topped Klasse with P21S before and even after the P21S wears off, the Klasse keeps going and going. I've never noticed any durability issues with topping a sealant.



I think it is wishful thinking that BF will last 8 to 10 months. BF is maybe a 3 month sealant and that is even stretching it. If you want a durable sealant to protect the car for the long term then you really need to use Klasse or Zaino. Both of those are solid sealants that, although they won't last 8 to 10 months either, will last 5 or 6 months at least. You'd have to get the layers built up on it, but it will last you longer than Blackfire.
 
I have played with this before and found that I did increase durability... My combo however was #20 topped with Meg's Gold Class Carnauba (liquid).



It added I would have to guess another month over what just #20 would have given me.



the next combo I will be trying is going to be applied over the weekend- 3x Z5, 3x Z2, and 1 or 2 coats of S100.
 
Jngr, I agree with you on the longevity of the BF...I'm certainly not expecting to see any of it when the car comes back to Michigan, but alas, I am out of Klasse and he leaves Monday...so I had to go for the next longest-lasting thing in my garage. Have you noticed longer life with the Klasse when topped, or is there no change?



Shiny, Interesting results with the #20 & Gold Class. That's kind of what I was getting at with the question. If you have a 6-month sealant (theoretically) and you top it with a paste, will you get a 7-month sealant...or will it give up in the same 6-months regardless of the topper.
 
I don't usually wait for the sealant to wear off before applying another coat. I put on enough layers often enough that I've never seen Klasse wear off of my own cars. I have a few slothful "regulars" who bring me their cars after Klasse stops looking so hot. One layer of SG will bead for a solid 2 1/2 - 3 months whether it is topped or not. I haven't noticed any difference in the long run either way. Its the short term apperance pow that I use the topper for.
 
Shiny Lil Detlr[/i] [b]I have played with this before and found that I did increase durability... My combo however was #20 topped with Meg's Gold Class Carnauba (liquid). It added I would have to guess another month over what just #20 would have given me. [/b][/quote] ... [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Jngrbrdman said:
I thought that Gold Class was kind of like a cleaner wax because of the solvent content in it. No? :confused:
Click to expand...



Yes, it is. 7-month lasting Gold Class (???) :scared



I doubt applying any wax on top of a sealant will increase the durability. IMO the sealant and topper will both degrade at the same time... wax isn't like paint and isn't really an impermeable layer.
 
I just know what happened when I tried it.. this was actually back right when I first joined the site and detailed my blazer that way... I'm gonna go find the old pics of that combo here in a sec.



Also GC may have a high solvent content but it didn't seem to bother the #20 underneath because that particular #20 lasted me all through the winter- about 6.5-7 months. (I applied it right at the beginning of winter as the pics will show)



be back in a few with pics.
 
ok here we go... this detail was from december of 2001 right before I joined the site as a member (had been lurking since way back before that) using #20 and the GC liquid.



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ugh, nevermind...



How could you tell the paint was still protected so long after you applied it? Was it still beading water? Was it slick?
 
CRXSi90 said:
ugh, nevermind...



How could you tell the paint was still protected so long after you applied it? Was it still beading water? Was it slick?
Click to expand...



yes on both counts... water beading and slickness were dead giveaways.
 
I'm not 100% sure about this, but I think my 5 or 6 coats of Klasse may still be on my car. At least, some of it anyway.



When picking products and doing my major detail last year, I was working with the theory (supported by other members IIRC) that a layer or two of carnauba paste wax would act as a kind of sacrificial layer that would protect the Klasse underneath it. I was topping my car off with S100 pretty frequently until winter came, but since then I haven't re-topped it.



I kind of freaked out in the spring when I saw some panels sheeting water (like the way bare paint does), but since then haven't seen this happening. Maybe it was the S100 wearing off. :nixweiss I washed my car just yesterday and I have a good feeling that Klasse is still on the paint judging only by the way the water runs off and beaded. I didn't re-check slickness, but I'm sure that is not too great anymore. A QD session fixes that very nicely though. :cool:



On another note, I had some cleaner wax on the roof (applied a few months ago), and that's not doing as well and QD doesn't replenish the slickness as much....
 
I also feel that topping extends the durability. First the wax takes a while to disappear, THEN the sealant takes the abuse. FWIW, I did the roof of the MPV early last summer with SG*4 and a topper of Meg's #16*2 (yeah, layering of wax is debatable...). Retopped the #16 in late August. Haven't done anything (to THAT panel) except wash (and occasionally QD afterward) it since. It is STILL, obviously (looks and feel and, still, beading) protected by the SG. Yeah, it's usually garaged, but it's the family "dog car" and it gets pretty heavy-handed treatment. Plus it's made some long road trips to/from TN, with no cleanups for weeks at a time.



Similarly, Autoglym's SRP topped with Collinite lasts for many months (November through April), even on an "outside 24/7" car.



To REALLY extend the life of the detail, I top with Collinite.
 
Oh yes, I forgot to add that my car sits outside, uncovered, 24/7, with partial shade if it's lucky...... :( sad, but true.
 
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