Dismayed at the quality of my day long detail

E

Express

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I went to my Dad's house for Thanksgiving this morning and before lunch I washed the car and dryed it and than pulled it in the garage to await the polish/wax. After the big lunch I clay barred the entire car. Than I applied Meguiars #2 Crystal polish by hand to the entire hand and than buffed off. Finally I applied Meguiars #3 Crystal wax by hand and than buffed off. Obviously the car looked great in the garage and when I left it was 10pm. When I got home I parked under an outdoor light which showed what appeared to be more swirl marks than when I started as well as some smearing. It looked perfect in the garage and I took my time (3hrs....polish/wax). All that work for nothing! I dont know if I just cant detail my car, but I'm quite frustrated. I'd like to get it professionaly done, but the detailers around here aren't that professional or good.:mad:
 
professional detailer aint the answer....a million of your swirls cant compare to all theirs....from a PC tooboot and harder to get out.....all they do is create more and cover it all up for a wk or two with crappy silicone oily poop!!!!:D .....evrybody here's had those results evry once in a while...no matter how "skilled they are'...IT HAPPENS....how did u remove the claybar residue....maybe there was some left....could've been anything and you lways got this w/e to do it all over....ps....stay out from under that light....at least for a few days...for your mental sanity...and mine too...;) .....but knwoing you...and us....you'll park under that exact light all the time now so you can keep looking for mistakes....cheer up dood...i think that bird makes people loopy:p
 
Thanks for the vote of confidence. I guess I'm just dismayed at how difficult it is to keep a black car looking good. I waxed my previous car (pearl white) and it always looked good. Now I know why.
 
Zoominlude, don't fret. I have a 5 month-old black car that looks almost perfect, even under the bright sun. However, I once parked it late night at a restaurant parking lot under a light similar to a street light and I couldn't believe how many swirls i was seeing.



As for the smearing, did you QD after applying the crystal wax? I always QD after washing and after waxing (Synthetics & Carnaubas). With carnauba's it's difficult to get it COMPLETELY smear-free after applying a coat.
 
"Perhaps" the Crystal Polish was not adequate enough in that your finish required a more complete or slightly aggressive cleaning/polishing action, like Meguiars #9 Swirl Remover or 3M Finesse-it2 Machine Polish, followed up with your Crystal hand polish or comparable product for that lil extra shine and then topped off with you wax.



TBone :)
 
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >

<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by ZoominLude [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>I went to my Dad's house for Thanksgiving this morning and before lunch I washed the car and dryed it and than pulled it in the garage to await the polish/wax. After the big lunch I clay barred the entire car. Than I applied Meguiars #2 Crystal polish by hand to the entire hand and than buffed off. Finally I applied Meguiars #3 Crystal wax by hand and than buffed off. Obviously the car looked great in the garage and when I left it was 10pm. When I got home I parked under an outdoor light which showed what appeared to be more swirl marks than when I started as well as some smearing. It looked perfect in the garage and I took my time (3hrs....polish/wax). All that work for nothing! I dont know if I just cant detail my car, but I'm quite frustrated. I'd like to get it professionaly done, but the detailers around here aren't that professional or good.:mad: [/b]</blockquote>
I feel your pain. I tried Meguiar's "Crystal" line of products on my wife's dark blue Toyota 4Runner just one time! After five hours of work I was really upset with the quality of the finish. I stopped using that line of product and also have not gone back to hand polishing. It's very hard when your trying to improve your finish. I would suggest looking into getting a Porter Cable 7424 orbital buffer and the correct pads to use with it.

As for product, I would suggest some 3M SMR or Perfect-It II and that should remove or minimize the swirls. You could then use a good quality leveler on the paint that would further round the edges of the swirl marks even more and it would fill them a bit depending on what brand you choose.

After that step is done, use a good quality wax based product or a synthetic sealant to seal all your hard work.

REMEMBER, black is just plain hard to keep perfect! Don't drive yourself nuts, sounds like your car is better looking then 98% of the cars on the road :)
 
Thanks for all the props guys. I really do need to look into get an machine buffer. It would seem to cut down on time and also increase the results. I just need to find a video (or better yet a person) which could instruct me as to its use.
 
Zoomin Prelude, yes it's very difficult to effectively remove swirls via hand...regardless of the product, especially on a black car.



A lot of people have had success with Finesse-It by hand, but I think a lot of those instances were on light metallic paint. I tried Finesse-It by hand on a friend's black car last week and it left a haze which I COULDN'T remove with PPCL. Maybe there was something wrong with my technique. I'm just glad I tried it on someone else's car before mine. Luckily, despite the haze, her car looked much better than before. After that incident, I'm a pretty firm believer in the use of a machine for swirl-removal.



DavidB posted some really good streaming video on how to use a random orbital with products like 3M SMR. It was a while ago and I'm not sure how to find it now. Might want to do some searches.



Meguiar's also has some pretty good streaming video on their website as well.
 
Zoominlude, throw any Meguiars products in a burgandy bottle you have into the trash. Don't buy anymore either-seriously. I don't know why Meguiars continues to sell that line, it is of inferior quality to their Mirror Glaze or Body Shop Pro lines.



Try using Meguiars Swirl Remover #9. Use a terry cloth towel folded into 1/8s. Just do one section at a time, and work the #9 into the paint in back and forth motions until it looks nearly clear and dry. Buff off excess and move on to the next panel. Once you have gone over the whole car, then use Meguiars Show Car Glaze #7, again using a back and forth motion working the product into the paint the same way as #9, but apply with a foam hand applicator and go over the entire car before buffing off. Then follow with Meguiars High Tech Yellow #26, cover the entire car using a back and forth motion, wait 10-15 minutes, then buff off the excess. Make sure you use towels with a deep nap and do not use any fabric softener when you wash them. Always follow a carnuba based wax with a quick detailer to remove any smears or streaks.



If you can get ahold of Meguiars Body Shop Pro line, then substitute Swirl Free Polish for #9 and Hand Polish for #7. You also might want to try Dual Action Cleaner/Polish if the swirls are too deep for #9 or Swirl Free Polish to remove. Apply and remove the same way as Swirl Remover.
 
I have a 2001 Black Acura CL-S and this weekend I just finished trashing all of my Meguiars products, because I've been very disappointed with them. The Gold Class Clear Coat Prep/Swirl Reducer (which I notice Meguiars no longer makes) is VERY difficult to remove and left a haze on my paint, even with the Porter-Cable buffer. I've had to leave the car sit overnight just to get the stuff off or it will just smear. The Gold Class wax isn't much better. I'm not sure whether there is a build-up situation going on here or not, but I'm putting in an order for One Grand products next time.



Along with a good deal of proselytizing included in their literature (which I feel is unnecessary), Meguiar's seems to be old technology, IMHO.
 
Don't feel bad. It is literally impossible to have a swirl or micro-marring-free surface on black paint when armed with a lighted magnifier or flooded with fluorescent lighting.



I wouldn't give up if I were you. At least 70% of your results from Meguiar's depends on techniques and efforts. Try practicing more and when you "upgrade" to better products, the difference will be even more significant.



Good luck! Look at the shine Carguy has on his Porsche…
 
I took a vacation day last week and totally went over our new 2002 Mitsubishi Lancer (dark grey metallic) with my Meguiar's products. Luckily for me, the paint was nice and smooth from the dealer (amazing) so I didn't have to clay the whole thing... though washing with Dawn really showed how much greasy wax the dealer put on it.

I hand-worked Meguiar's three step process (cleaner, polish and wax) but for the third step I substituted their professional line #20 Polysealant. Let me tell you.... that Lancer looked like it was dipped in butter it was so smooth and warm.

However, I wanted the polysealant protection for the winter and I was amazed at how smooth it went on and came off..... left an amazing (and warm) shine. It did leave a little residue behind <strong class='bbc'>if[/b] I didn't keep a clean towel on the finish, but I solved that by using two towels... one to remove the sealant and the other to polish behind it..... Once the first started to leave residue, I'd toss it aside, use the polish towel for the removal and grab a new towel for the polishing. I used maybe four 6"x6" towels which I will wash and dry for next time.

We had a couple days of rainshowers and the water beaded like it never has before - I would say microbeading - and after driving down the road, they rolled off and left the paint nice and shiny like before. I've never had that result with Meguiar's Gold Class.... I'm a Polysealant convert.... and next time I'll put a coat or two of a good carnuba based wax for extra depth.

I took some photos and will have them developed in the next week or so. Keep your head up. As soon as I parked the Lancer under a streetlight, I could see small swirls as well.... I have just resigned myself to being vigilant and knowing it will be a lifelong battle.

good luck!:up
 
The only time a clear-coat is truly 100% swirl-free is right when it comes out of the oven. I cringe everytime I wipe a certain part of my new CLK and I see a tiny marr under the flo lights.
 
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >

<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by The Green Hornet [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>I have a 2001 Black Acura CL-S and this weekend I just finished trashing all of my Meguiars products, because I've been very disappointed with them. The Gold Class Clear Coat Prep/Swirl Reducer (which I notice Meguiars no longer makes) is VERY difficult to remove and left a haze on my paint, even with the Porter-Cable buffer. I've had to leave the car sit overnight just to get the stuff off or it will just smear. The Gold Class wax isn't much better. I'm not sure whether there is a build-up situation going on here or not, but I'm putting in an order for One Grand products next time.

Along with a good deal of proselytizing included in their literature (which I feel is unnecessary), Meguiar's seems to be old technology, IMHO. [/b]</blockquote>
Like I pointed out earlier, if you are not using Meguiars Mirror Glaze or Body Shop Professional lines, then you are wasting time and money. I have never been impressed with Gold Glass, and their Deep Crystal and other 'burgandy bottle" products are not very good either. Use the products and methods in my previous post in this thread, and you will get excellent results.


Green Hornet-you are in Fort Worth. Give me a call and I will detail your car (for a small fee, of course :D ) with Meguiars pro line products and you will see the difference:up
 
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >

<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by Scottwax [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>Try using Meguiars Swirl Remover #9. Use a terry cloth towel folded into 1/8s. Just do one section at a time, and work the #9 into the paint in back and forth motions until it looks nearly clear and dry. Buff off excess and move on to the next panel. Once you have gone over the whole car, then use Meguiars Show Car Glaze #7, again using a back and forth motion working the product into the paint the same way as #9, but apply with a foam hand applicator and go over the entire car before buffing off. Then follow with Meguiars High Tech Yellow #26, cover the entire car using a back and forth motion, wait 10-15 minutes, then buff off the excess. Make sure you use towels with a deep nap and do not use any fabric softener when you wash them. Always follow a carnuba based wax with a quick detailer to remove any smears or streaks.

If you can get ahold of Meguiars Body Shop Pro line, then substitute Swirl Free Polish for #9 and Hand Polish for #7. You also might want to try Dual Action Cleaner/Polish if the swirls are too deep for #9 or Swirl Free Polish to remove. Apply and remove the same way as Swirl Remover. [/b]</blockquote>
Scottwax, on a daily driver that's garaged at home and work (50 miles/day w/black paint) how long before the oils in #9, #7 & #26 dry out and the swirls reappear (if ever)? What about substituting #26 for OG Blitz or Souveran?

Can they be applied with foam or does it have to be terry?

BTW, it looks like the High-Tech Yellow Paste Wax did pretty well at www.thewaxtest.com. Still beading a lot after 5 weeks.

Thanks.
 
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >

<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by Intermezzo330I [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>

Scottwax, on a daily driver that's garaged at home and work (50 miles/day w/black paint) how long before the oils in #9, #7 & #26 dry out and the swirls reappear (if ever)? What about substituting #26 for OG Blitz or Souveran?

Can they be applied with foam or does it have to be terry?

BTW, it looks like the High-Tech Yellow Paste Wax did pretty well at www.thewaxtest.com. Still beading a lot after 5 weeks.

Thanks. [/b]</blockquote>
It is hard to say without actually seeing the swirls. Usually, on cars that I regularly detail, there are very few swirls, because my version of "Do you want fries with that?" is "Looks like it is about time for another coat of wax." :D

Usually if I am working out swirls, I use terry cloth towels to apply and work in the swirl remover or glaze. I find I get more even pressure across the paint than when I use a foam pad. If the paint is swirl free and I am shooting for extra gloss, then I apply Hand Polish with a foam pad. I always work by hand. I do not even own a buffer, and I have taken out some deep oxidation and severe swirls by hand.

If the swirls are bad, I use Meguiars Dual Action/Cleaner Polish before using the swirl remover. Dual Action starts off semi-aggressive, but quickly breaks down to the equivalant of a swirl remover. It is probably Meguairs best overall product-it removes heavy oxidation, but once it breaks down, it doesn't leave scratches in the paint that some heavy compounds can. You can go straight from Dual Action to Hand Polish is most cases-but if there are heavy swirls and buffer marks, then I use Swirl Free Polish also.

How long are the swirls hidden? Depends. Usually, if you use Dual Action, Swirl Free then Hand Polish before waxing, you will eliminate many of the swirls, and if you continue to use Swirl Free and Hand Polish prior to waxing, you will probably not see them again-provided you wax your car regularly...about every 2-3 months or so.

I have a customer with a Bentley Continental SC who had pretty bad swirls and buffer marks from the idiot make ready clown who used a buffer and wool pad to wax the car prior to delivery. I spent about 4 hours working the swirls out of the paint. A year later, with regular waxing (about every 6 weeks or so, and Hand Polish every other time I wax it), none of the buffer marks have resurfaced.

I am sure you can use pretty much any wax after prepping the surface with Meguiars products-they did that at thewaxtest.com and the prep was so good initially, they had trouble seeing if the waxes made a difference.
 
I'm with both <strong class='bbc'>Scottwax[/b] and <strong class='bbc'>graeme[/b] about using the Meguiar's Mirror Glaze series of products. I have no idea why the heck they even bother manufacturing the burgandy bottle consumer series; I think it may be for those who get frightened by the word "Professional" on the tan bottles :eek: .

Like <strong class='bbc'>graeme[/b], I'm a big fan of the No. 20 Polymer Sealant, although I like the No. 26 High-Tech Yellow Paste Wax too. I don't know why I'd even bother trying anything else. Using my new PC and pads from either Meguiars or Griots, and the Meguiars No. 9 & No. 20, I've had the stuff provide great shine and protection right through a nasty Michigan winter right up unti lspring. Do the car again , and it lasts through the summer.

Hell, I've detailed my parents Crown Vic and the No. 20 lasts almost a year.:up
 
If you get depressed looking at micro-swirls in your black finish, just do what I did last week, went down to the dealer and looked at brand new showroom cars with black finishes. It gave me renewed confidence that I am doing the best I can for a black finish!
 
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