Disapointing news.....
- Thread starter DETAILKING
- Start date
Redcar GUY
New member
Good, maybe its time to move some jobs back here 
detailbarn
Professional Detailer
I have a hard time believing that. Every amercian car I've ever owned gave me a ton of problems. My mom has a 2002 Excursion with about 30,000 miles on it and it has a ton of problems the power windows don't work , the reverse sensing systems works in drive , the interior is falling apart and the plastic is all discoloring , the four wheel drive randomly works at best. I think there may be problems with the new electronic gizmos that alsmost all car makers are putting in there cars. I still think overall quality and realiability is with the German made vehicles.
imported_memnuts
New member
In a telephone conference with reporters, Champion revealed a startling statistic: a new 2003 BMW 7-Series sedan has more problems than an 8-year-old Lexus LS 400 sedan.
This is not news. :nixweiss Lexus has always been a flawless, carefree vehicle that just goes and goes and goes.
This is not news. :nixweiss Lexus has always been a flawless, carefree vehicle that just goes and goes and goes.
Detailing NY
New member
I am not sure what car it was I think it was a volvo, but my friend one day did not close the gas cap all the way and the engine light came on, he needed to go to the dealer to get reset.
I dont have time for that crap. If you ask me nothing beats american muscle cars.
I dont have time for that crap. If you ask me nothing beats american muscle cars.
imported_memnuts
New member
NY detailer said:
:bow :bow :bow
imported_jaobrien6
New member
NY detailer said:
If I don't tighten the gas cap enough on my Acura Integra (3 clicks is what they say in the manual), then the check engine light will come on. I think that's actually fairly common as a friend had the same problem on a different car (can't remember what it was). However, I definitely don't have to take it to the dealer to fix it; I just have to tighten the gas cap down and drive the car a couple of times and the light goes off.
John
Spilchy
New member
NY detailer said:
Right on brother :xyxthumbs
(I don't know how that relates to the thread, but I love the sentiment!)
Glossequation
New member
NY detailer said:
:up
LightngSVT
New member
I dont know, I have ahd only American cars except for a 91 300ZX TT (awesome car!) and my current beater 91 Civic SI. I have had very good luck with all my cars to date with only minor and very occasional trips to the dealer. I once owned a Ford E150 van with 265000 miles that was still going strong when I sold it. MAybe I have been lucky?
Just because CR reports it doesn't mean it's true. Customer expectations also play a part. For example, consider the following scenario as an example of how the statistics could be skewed:
Some consumers aren't satisfied with American cars, and choose Asian cars as an alternative.
As these consumers become more affluent, they look for an alternative to Asian cars, and skip over American cars based on their prior experience. Keep in mind, that group that is satisfied with American cars stays with them; this would show up as a perceived INCREASE in American quality, accompanied by a drop in sales.
The Asian consumers graduate to European cars, and find them to be unsatisfactory in quality compared to Asian cars.
So, Asian car consumers are satisfied, American car consumers are satisfied, and European car consumers are dissatisfied. It has NOTHING to do with the quality of the cars, and EVERYTHING to say about the relationship between the car and the owner.
Tom
Some consumers aren't satisfied with American cars, and choose Asian cars as an alternative.
As these consumers become more affluent, they look for an alternative to Asian cars, and skip over American cars based on their prior experience. Keep in mind, that group that is satisfied with American cars stays with them; this would show up as a perceived INCREASE in American quality, accompanied by a drop in sales.
The Asian consumers graduate to European cars, and find them to be unsatisfactory in quality compared to Asian cars.
So, Asian car consumers are satisfied, American car consumers are satisfied, and European car consumers are dissatisfied. It has NOTHING to do with the quality of the cars, and EVERYTHING to say about the relationship between the car and the owner.
Tom
imported_garyo
New member
Along the same lines of Tom, we need to know the definition of what a “problem� is under the survey/report. There was a survey/report last year involving brands (CR or JD Powers?). Mini and Hummer as brands ranked last with the most problems. Then it eventually came out that problems included “harsh ride�, “poor gas mileage� “small interior�, “wind noise�, etc.. If you took these “problems� out of the equation both the Hummer brand and the Mini brand ranked in something like the top third not dead last. How can anyone expect to purchase a Hummer and get good gas mileage and/or not have wind noise? Additionally the sports package with 18� wheels on the Mini are suppose to really decrease the ride quality for some (I found it very fun). It is not clear in this CR report what was considered a problem.
That said it is common knowledge that MB is having some serious problems involving electronics. At the same time the i-drive system on the BMW is a nightmare to operate and garners all kinds of complaints…is this a “problemâ€�?. I wonder if the aforementioned check engine light for loose gas cap is considered a “problemâ€� in the survey?
On my soap box for a second…what is BMW thinking with this stupid i-drive system?....for god sake they had to add an ESC type key because people were getting lost in the menus. There is definitely something to be said for “KISSâ€� (keep it simple stupid).
That said it is common knowledge that MB is having some serious problems involving electronics. At the same time the i-drive system on the BMW is a nightmare to operate and garners all kinds of complaints…is this a “problemâ€�?. I wonder if the aforementioned check engine light for loose gas cap is considered a “problemâ€� in the survey?
On my soap box for a second…what is BMW thinking with this stupid i-drive system?....for god sake they had to add an ESC type key because people were getting lost in the menus. There is definitely something to be said for “KISSâ€� (keep it simple stupid).
imported_memnuts
New member
It is all perception of what is graduating up. I do not feel that any world region makes superior vehicles. America - the Pinto, Euro - most Renaults and Yugo. Far East - at one time Hundai's. I have had Euro's _ VW, Audi, TR6, and BMW, American - too many to name here ( still have 5 ) and Far East - RX7, 626, Acura, and LS400. I love them all, received great pleasure and dependibilty from all of them and never perceived that I was stepping up or down at any point. They all met my driving needs at the time.
I have had both domestic (Late '70s - Late '80s) as well as Asian ('94 & '02). Let me give you a rundown:
1977 Cutlass: Alternator died on it. After that, no more problems.
1986 Blazer: 4WD died on it, Master Cylinder died, head gasket
1988 Caprice (
): 2 altenator rebuilds, 2 water pump replacements, 1 radiator, Pollution controls , Severe oil leak, transmission
1994 Maxima: Distributor Rotor. No problems after that
2002 Maxima: Not a problem at all
Bluntly, I had fewer problems out of my '77 Cutlass and both of my Maximas versus the two GM products form the '80s. But does that sour me on owning a domestic? No. As previously stated, there is no substitute for American Muscle.
However, I am surprised at the findings that the Europeans scored very low in reliability.
1977 Cutlass: Alternator died on it. After that, no more problems.
1986 Blazer: 4WD died on it, Master Cylinder died, head gasket
1988 Caprice (
): 2 altenator rebuilds, 2 water pump replacements, 1 radiator, Pollution controls , Severe oil leak, transmission1994 Maxima: Distributor Rotor. No problems after that
2002 Maxima: Not a problem at all
Bluntly, I had fewer problems out of my '77 Cutlass and both of my Maximas versus the two GM products form the '80s. But does that sour me on owning a domestic? No. As previously stated, there is no substitute for American Muscle.
However, I am surprised at the findings that the Europeans scored very low in reliability.
Marc Hufnagel
New member
Read the user manual on a 2000 Jeep Cherokee with the 4.0L straight 6 sometime. It specifically tells you that a loose gas cap/defective cap may very well cause a SERVICE ENGINE SOON light and a trip to the dealer. :nixweiss
NY detailer said:
TortoiseAWD
New member
The gas cap thing is an OBDII requirement, and is found on *all* new cars sold in the US since OBDII was mandated. It has nothing to do with the vehicle being domestic or import. Trying to use this feature of OBDII to denigrate imports and pump up American "muscle" makes no sense, as new domestics are subject to the exact same OBDII requirements as their foreign counterparts (a new Chevy or Ford will have this "feature", just like Mazdas, Mitsus, Subarus, etc., etc.). Now, if you want to argue that older, pre-OBD cars are easier to deal with (regardless of their marque), that's a different matter, and one I might agree with.
On many vehicles, simply closing the gas cap and driving for a while will reset the light. For those that require an ECU reset, you can either take it to AutoZone and have it done for free (at least around here, AutoZone will pull and reset codes on OBDI and OBDII cars for free), or you can simply disconnect the negative terminal on the battery for a while. The battery trick works on a lot of cars; YMMV, of course.
Tort
Joe K -- 01 Green
New member
The two ends of the sprectrum of the 15 cars I've owned
'86 Bonneville more problems that can be listed in cyberspace
'84 Toyota MR2 not one dime in 60k VERY HARD miles
'86 Bonneville more problems that can be listed in cyberspace
'84 Toyota MR2 not one dime in 60k VERY HARD miles
This has to be one of the most debated topics in recent times. The Europeans have definitely let the ball drop when it comes to reliability. I know I've said it before but I'll say it again, my 97 VW Golf was THE biggest piece of junk I've ever had the displeasure of owning. The sour taste still stands to this day and I for one am happy they're getting theirs! Hopefully they'll turn their problems around because they definitely know how to build fun cars.
Mercedes/BMW have just lost site of their roots. They both seem to be steering away from what they're known for and cashing in on their history. Although I will say BMW does seem to maintain their awesome driveability, just can't figure out why they're going overboard on the gadgets.:nixweiss
Regarding Consumer Reports, does anyone subscribe to them and can anyone say for sure what the problems are that people are having? I always wonder how accurate their findings are and if their questions are geared towards only certain aspects of a vehicle and not the big picture. It does make a huge difference. For instance when I received a quality survey from American Honda after buying my CRV I noted that most of the questions they asked didn't really touch upon the issues I had with the car.
Mercedes/BMW have just lost site of their roots. They both seem to be steering away from what they're known for and cashing in on their history. Although I will say BMW does seem to maintain their awesome driveability, just can't figure out why they're going overboard on the gadgets.:nixweiss
Regarding Consumer Reports, does anyone subscribe to them and can anyone say for sure what the problems are that people are having? I always wonder how accurate their findings are and if their questions are geared towards only certain aspects of a vehicle and not the big picture. It does make a huge difference. For instance when I received a quality survey from American Honda after buying my CRV I noted that most of the questions they asked didn't really touch upon the issues I had with the car.