Detailing with a PC....

L

longms

New member
I have been trying to get my processes down and learn how to use the PC to produce good results. I can achieve some good results but always get the feeling that I could done everything quicker. With that being said I am becoming more aware of the fact that if I were to ever want to detail for some sort of income I would need to start honing my skills with a rotary like the Makita. Every video or writeup I see with a rotary they do the same amount of area in half the time with better results.



Should I continue with my learning curve with the PC and then once I feel that I can use the PC effectively start looking into a Makita? I feel that by doing this I will have learned how to take my time and do the job right the first time. Then moving on to a better machine will enable me to pay attention to detail and do an even better job with the proper equipment.



Let me know what you guys think or suggest. I know I need to attend some kind of tutorial or class for a rotary machine before I jump in over my head with a new tool.
 
longms said:
Should I continue with my learning curve with the PC and then once I feel that I can use the PC effectively start looking into a Makita? I feel that by doing this I will have learned how to take my time and do the job right the first time. Then moving on to a better machine will enable me to pay attention to detail and do an even better job with the proper equipment.
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Sounds like you're giving yourself some good advice. You've gotta be good at and confident in walking before you learn to run.



After buying a PC and then seeing what else was out there I'd wished I had gotten a Flex, faster and more rotary-like as well as better performance. So I ended up buying one of those too. Maybe a good stepping stone to a rotary.



Let me know what you guys think or suggest. I know I need to attend some kind of tutorial or class for a rotary machine before I jump in over my head with a new tool.
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Don't know of any classes available in Ohio, AFAIK. (wherebouts in OH?) Always nice to get some tutelage in an area where learning can produce expensive lessons.



I used a rotary for over 20 years before I figured out I didn't know what I was doing. The guy that introduced me to the buffer basically used it to take off cleaners and waxes, so I ended up doing the same for years. Once I learned about working compounds and polishes I was apprehensive about working on MY paint and screwing it up and I certainly didn't want to screw up anyone elses. So I continued to use a rotary with light cleaners and for wax removal and burnishing.



Once I discovered the myriad of online detailing forums and the tutorials and videos available, that's when I bought the PC and started seeing the results I'd been looking for all along. The Flex brought a lot of improvement and cut down on the time factor. Then I discovered the 3" Metabo, so I bought that too. (Help me, I can't stop buying!!!) Different tools with different strengths for different uses.



I'm going to pick up a junk panel from a body shop and stick it in the garage for experimenting and practicing. Wet sanding and serious defect removal is on the agenda. You may want to consider the same before leaping into a rotary with dry feet. I saw a bit of primer during my early rotary learning days sticking a whirling piece of wool into places and at angles where you shouldn't. Ya kinda want to avoid that if you can. Trial and error is a crude way to learn. Effective, but it can get kinda pricey :doh



TL
 
longms- Some sorta random thoughts follow:



See if http://www.autoint.com/ is offering their Prep-Excellence course.



I dunno if you *have* to be proficient with a rotary to detail professionally :think: Now that I have my Flex 3401 I doubt my rotaries will be getting much use.



I've *never* needed to practice on scrap panels..wetsanding/rotary/etc. just require the right mindset *IME* but maybe that's just me.



You oughta have an ETG if you're gonna be doing stuff like that, and probably oughta have one anyhow. I've found areas where the paint was too thin for even *PC* correction, sure glad I went over the guy's (show) car with that ETG or I probably woulda done some damage!



You can correct virtually *anything* that's safe to correct with a PC/4"/M105.



Some *very* soft paints aren't PC-friendly, or so I hear. I only ran into that *one* time and the Cyclo worked fine for that. But such situations are regarding *finishing*, not initial correction and doing 100% finishing with a rotary isn't something you're gonna get the hang of right away anyhow (I've *never* gotten the hang of that).



I'd say to buy a 4" pad setup for your PC, then a good ETG, then a Flex 3401.
 
You were in my boat earlier this year for me. I started out with the PC and pretty much mastered it as much as I could go (cept 105...could never get that to work...) and as my luck would have it, I split my PC into 2 pieces. Thankfully it was still under warranty so I sent it in earlier last week. This pretty much prompted me to get a different machine. Since my close friend had a Flex DA already, I decided to go Makita. Well worth the upgrade for the lessened vibrations thats for sure :)



Stick with the PC. Master it and once you find its inefficient (or break it as in my case lol), upgrade to something better ;)
 
I am definitely sticking with the PC. I am slowly finding that it just cant achieve the same results as some other tools out there.



Could i get comparable results with a flex as with a rotary???
 
Have you used 4in pads with it yet? That steps up the power immensely IME. Plenty of people told me that I should not wetsand without a rotary and I did it more times than I could count with my PC and 4in pads :)



There is quite some power in that machine. You just have to find the right things to pair together to make it better thats all ;)
 
I have not gotten any 4" pads yet. I have the 5.5" pads now. That will be my next investment would be the 4" pads.



Do the orange or yellow pads have more cut??
 
longms said:
I am definitely sticking with the PC. I am slowly finding that it just cant achieve the same results as some other tools out there.



Could i get comparable results with a flex as with a rotary???
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*IME* yeah..the Flex 3401 is comparable to a rotary. Not *equal* but close enough for me in almost all instances.



I do suspect that the Flex 3401 won't be as durable as my rotaries/Cyclos though. No problems yet, but I won't be surprised if it needs rebuilt now and then.



Some people have said that finishing with a non-rotary won't give the same degree of gloss, but that has not been true IME.



Disclaimer: Note that I work on medium to very hard paints and I don't/won't have to worry about the stupid-soft clears that some people have to contend with (though I'm pretty certain the Flex 3401 or at least the Cyclo would do fine with the right pads/products).



For that matter, the PC/3.5-4" PFW or 4" yellow or orange cutting pads/M105 really should take care of most anything. I've taken 2K sanding scratches out of hard clear (and yeah, I inspected with magnification and they were *gone*) with those combos.



If something is so deep that you need rotary-only, rocks-in-a-bottle compounds, I'd just wetsand and then use the PC/4" or Flex 3401 to take out the sanding scratches. Just make sure you use Megiar's/Nikken or Mirka sanding papers (others leave random deep "tracer" scratches that you won't get out without some serious rotary work).

Do the orange or yellow pads have more cut??
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Yellow have more cut than orange but IME they wear faster so after enough uses the two become sorta similar. Still, the yellow are generally more porous, which can be good with some products. If you need more cut than the 4" yellow get the 3.5" or 4" LC Purple Foamed Wool pads, they do some serious cutting but still finish out pretty well. They do wear out pretty fast though, so have plenty of 'em on hand.
 
personally, I skip the yellow ones unless I am removing oxidation - those just eat oxidation up like no ones business...



it goes

PFW

orange

white

blue

red



for me
 
Man, I just love reading Accumulator's posts. Thay are so informative, and seem to follow the direction I always seem to want to follow. Thanks for being sooo helpful man!
 
There are a lot of people very willing to help people like me that are learning/trying to learn.



Thanks for hooking it up!!!
 
WhiteStripes- Glad to be helpful.



toyotaguy said:
personally, I skip the yellow ones unless I am removing oxidation - those just eat oxidation up like no ones business...
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Yeah, they seem to work great for that for me too...I can't help but wonder if it's the porosity as much as the firmer foam :think:



OTOH..on my (never-ending project car) M3, the PC/4" Cyclo brand yellow/M105 is *just* the ticket for pretty nasty marring. Blew me away considering that plenty of product/pad combos *via rotary* are less effective on that hard clear.
 
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