Comments appreciated--128 vs. GTI

H

Hey Moe!

New member
As I am preparing to retire at the end of May after 34 years as a schoolteacher, I am also pondering a new car purchase (maybe a treat?)



I intend to keep my by-then, paid-for Focus ST, since it is enjoyable to drive, and very reliable. It would also help me keep the miles down on the new ride (I drive 18-20K a year). And, with the Blizzaks on, it storms through winter.



I have test-driven a BMW 128, and liked it. And, I have always admired the BMW brand. However, it is possible to get a GTI that has maybe 90% of the fun-to-drive factor for significantly less money. I actually owned an '83 GTI (first year in the US), and loved driving it. The slightly-redone 2010 model due in the fall will have another 10 HP over the '09.



I would appreciate any comments on the two cars, though it is a bit of an apples and oranges comparison. Also, if anyone has any suggestions for qualty VW forums to take a look at, please chime in (I already have BMW covered).



Feel free to offer anything.



Thanks!



Mike
 
vwvortex is pretty good.



I've been looking at the R32. The R32 is basically a GTI w/ AWD and a 3.2L V6 that sounds AWESOME. It's not gonna give you tailslides and burnouts and such, but it'll annihilate the 128 on a track. Top Gear did a test between the R32 and the 130 M Sport(hatchback over there) and had nothing but praise for the R32, and hated the 1 series.



The GTI is gonna be a much more practical vehicle, and is capable of absurd power with minor upgrades. Like 300whp and torque insane.



The 1 series is a decent little car, but really why not just go for the Z4 at that point? The backseat is pretty much useless. And if you're gonna get the 1 series, you gotta get the 135i.



I'd personally lean towards the GTI or an R32. But that's just me and my love for hatches. The R20 is set to be introduced in May, you might like that too. AWD + high output 2.0t somewhere around 270hp. should be a fun ride. If you're not all about the performance, you might like the Audi A3 with a 2.0t
 
I'm aware of the R20. It does sound interesting. So, it is coming in May? Hmmmmm.....



I'll check out vwvortex. Thanks a bunch.



A 128 equipped the way I like would go for $35-36K. I've pretty much set that as my outer limit, price-wise.



But, if a GTI would make me happy for less, well, hey!
 
I always factor in who can repair the car when it's broken. To me, that's a huge issue with today's car complexities. I have extensive experience with both VW and BMW in my local area. The BMW dealer is able to maintain and repair the product they sell.....
 
tom p. said:
I always factor in who can repair the car when it's broken. To me, that's a huge issue with today's car complexities. I have extensive experience with both VW and BMW in my local area. The BMW dealer is able to maintain and repair the product they sell.....
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Both brands can be hit or miss, but at least with BMW you are guaranteed a loner.



The Focus ST is one of the most fun handling FWD cars out there ... if you have the right year you could swap out the springs for the SVT springs and really have a fun, dynamic FWD car. I don't think the GTI would add much more than a little extra horsepower...



The 128i is a very capable car. For that range you may be able to step into a 135i if you option/bargain right.



If you want to have a second car and already have a sedan...why not get a roadster? Miatas are hands down the most fun and best bang for the buck I have ever driven or owned. My Porsches (Boxster and Cayman S) were way faster, but not nearly as fun. I want to get an old 1990 and restore it sometime soon.



The R20 mentioned in this thread is kind of 'meh' to me. Bland looks. The Haldex AWD system leaves a lot to be desired in terms of it driving like a FWD until you bust the front wheels loose. The R32 I test drove understeered like a pig unless I plowed into a corner and floored the gas to get the rear end to come around.



If you are patient...Toyota/Subaru are supposed to come out with a joint project featuring a boxer 4 banger and RWD layout. That should be oodles of fun if executed properly.
 
370Z? I'm a GTI owner and would only take the 135i over it-not the 128. For the money how about a 370Z or even a used 06-07 G35 coupe?
 
The R32/R20 Haldex can be adjusted via computers. HPA has a totally stealth Haldex controller that can adjust things with the AWD.



Truthfully though, there's no reason to wait for the Toyobaru vaporcar. There's the Hyundai Genesis coupe out already that will be way better than the Toyobaru anyways.
 
tom p. said:
I always factor in who can repair the car when it's broken. To me, that's a huge issue with today's car complexities......
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Yeah, and it's gonna vary by area. See how the service depts. in question impress you. I simply can't get decent BMW service in my area.



BTW, the whole loaner-car thing can vary widely too. I never had a problem getting a loaner when I had my VW.



And when it's all said and done, buy whatever *YOU* really like, regardless of what the internet-experts say ;)
 
Both of you are correct about the service being an issue. There is a VW and a BMW dealer an hour away, but friends are steering me away from both places. Another VW dealer is an hour away. I drove a 128 last fall at a BMW delaer I felt comfortable at, but it is two hours away.



I suppose the distance is less of an issue if I am not working full-time, making it easier to get to the dealer. Also, there have to be a lot of BMW owners out there who live nowhere close to a dealer.
 
Always remember about reliability, when I was looking for a new car it was between a MS3, GTI, and Civic Si. When I did some searching I found that pretty much every site always ranked Honda #1 or close to it, VW was NEVER in any top 10. They are not well known for reliability. BMW on the other hand is always in the top 10 most reliable cars you can buy, usually around #7 or so after all the Japanese manufactures.
 
Hey, Moe!- FWIW, the Audi dealer I patronize is over an hour away, and there are some Audi dealers that're a lot closer. Stoddard Imported Cars is happy to send somebody down with a loaner, free of charge, and we joke about how their guy drives past a few Audi dealers on the way to my house. Maybe you'll find a good BMW/VW dealer who's just as accommodating, see what they say.
 
If the car is simply to be used as a daily driver then there's no contest: BMW 128i every time. It's just as practical as a GTI with MUCH better reliability and MUCH better resale value. Plus I like the way it drives in comparison (Gotta love light-weight RWD with a 230hp I-6!)



It is the more expensive car, but you get what you pay for. Your service experience will be better at a BMW dealership (at least in my experience) and you'll visit it far less than if you choose the GTI. Overall the BMW will be the easiest car to own and enjoy on a regular basis. The overall fit and finish of the BMW will be much better. (Though VW has been known for solid interiors, just not BMW solid)



If you're into the boy-racer or auto-x scene, you may want to choose a GTI, you'll be fixing a lot of things, but the car is very well supported by the aftermarket and simple computer upgrades do wonders for the car. The car is much cheaper than the BMW and gets slightly better gas mileage.



A friend of mine recently purchased a pre-owned GTI that clearly had work done on it; while it is a quick car, it has loads of problems.



If I'm paying for a car, I want to it to be in my possession more than the dealers. My vote: 128i.(Though if I were spending the money, I'd spring for the 135i, fantastic car)
 
I wrote a fairly long post and then said to myself "why..?"... so..



BMW hands down



(easy to maintain, fun to drive, and built better is the summary of the long post... I owned 2 of each so I'm not biased or anything, BMW was just better in every way except losing the rear end sometimes in the snow)
 
How is the coupe with a tiny trunk as practical as the hatchback?



Here's something to factor in too. I called up Allstate today to get some quotes on my insurance, an R32 was nearly double what a 350Z was, and 50% more than a G35. I can only imagine that would extend to the GTI as well, as the R32 isn't that much faster and is also significantly slower than the Z/G.



Have you looked into the 370Z? It'll be faster, with a better interior, and you get flappy paddles with the (faster than manual) 7 speed automatic. The G37 is also very nice, as is the new Hyundai Genesis Coupe. They could all be bought new or like new in your price range too.
 
XRL said:
How is the coupe with a tiny trunk as practical as the hatchback?



Here's something to factor in too. I called up Allstate today to get some quotes on my insurance, an R32 was nearly double what a 350Z was, and 50% more than a G35. I can only imagine that would extend to the GTI as well, as the R32 isn't that much faster and is also significantly slower than the Z/G.



Have you looked into the 370Z? It'll be faster, with a better interior, and you get flappy paddles with the (faster than manual) 7 speed automatic. The G37 is also very nice, as is the new Hyundai Genesis Coupe. They could all be bought new or like new in your price range too.
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How is it as practical?? Well for starters it's only got 2cu ft. less cargo space than the oh-so-practical hatch, the back seat is also more roomy in the 128i than the GTI. A more usable back seat seams more practical than a non-usable one. 128i seats four comfortably compared the the claimed 5-seater GTI. It offers more usable features and ammentities wraped up in a better built package. What's your definition of practical?



The BMW is a better car in almost every facet then the GTI. I don't dislike the GTI as I think it's an awesome little car, it's just not up to BMW standards.



I can't speak for the OP, but if he were looking for the fastest/blistering mode of transportation for the money, he'd be better served getting a Yamaha YZF or Kawasaki Ninja... He's looking for a fun to drive car that is going to give him years of service. Of his options, the 128i is probably his best choice.



While Hyundai has finally figured out how to make a somewhat excited car to drive, the Genesis platform is no-where near BMW/370 rigidity/strength. The driving dynamics aren't there either. It's a good car for a first attempt and as a Eclipse/Base Mustang/G6 coupe competitor, it's not so bad
 
The 128 was my original pick. The 135 is tempting, but it does poke over my cost ceiling. I busted my butt to get out of debt after I got divorced six years ago, and I don't want to go back there.



I'm not into the boy-racer scene, and I have no plans to track it. I just want to enjoy taking the "long way" to get somewhere, something I never had time to do before, and enjoy myself while doing it.



BMW's four-year, cover-almost-everything plan is inviting. I had a pleasant experience with the BMW dealer I visited last fall.



My girlfriend (a truly fine person) keeps telling me to go for the BMW, because I have always wanted one, and because I have worked numerous 60-70 hour work weeks to beat down the financial demons in the last handful of years.



The 1-Series, when ordered with the Sport Package, includes run-flat tires. Anyone want to comment there?
 
Drive both, then decide. I think in many cases the 3-series is actually lighter than the 1-series. Might want to check that out before making your decision. I'd personally look at Audi, too, but then again, I'm biased.
 
slicknickis3 said:
How is it as practical?? Well for starters it's only got 2cu ft. less cargo space than the oh-so-practical hatch, the back seat is also more roomy in the 128i than the GTI. A more usable back seat seams more practical than a non-usable one. 128i seats four comfortably compared the the claimed 5-seater GTI. It offers more usable features and ammentities wraped up in a better built package. What's your definition of practical?



The BMW is a better car in almost every facet then the GTI. I don't dislike the GTI as I think it's an awesome little car, it's just not up to BMW standards.



I can't speak for the OP, but if he were looking for the fastest/blistering mode of transportation for the money, he'd be better served getting a Yamaha YZF or Kawasaki Ninja... He's looking for a fun to drive car that is going to give him years of service. Of his options, the 128i is probably his best choice.



While Hyundai has finally figured out how to make a somewhat excited car to drive, the Genesis platform is no-where near BMW/370 rigidity/strength. The driving dynamics aren't there either. It's a good car for a first attempt and as a Eclipse/Base Mustang/G6 coupe competitor, it's not so bad
Click to expand...



The GTI has useable storage space though, with a nice big hatch to load in and you can fold down the rear seats to take home large items. Try fitting a decently sized TV or piece of furniture in the back of the 128i. to me, practicality is being able to use it to do assorted things you might want to, like buy stuff and take it home.



The Gen Coupe Hyundai has the same or more structural rigidity as the E46 M3. They built it to more rigid than that car. I've personally driven them, and they're damn good (for 10k less than a comparably equipped competitor). It's definitely not the best, and some things still don't feel right, but it's really not a bad car.



But I'd have to say the 128i is just not gonna be that fun to drive. It's HEAVY with a curb weight of like 3300 pounds and only 230hp. I'm sure it'll carve corners fine, but not that quickly, and not as fast as say, an S2000, RX8, 350Z, etc.



If it were the 135, that'd be one thing, but the 128... there's definitely better choices for the money. IMO at least. There's definitely something to be said for owning a BMW as a trophy or something, but I dunno. Why not just get a 2 seater like the Z4 or an Audi TT?
 
Well, I do have some cars I need to drive when I am finished with school at the end of May.



If I buy a BMW, it would not be for a trophy. It would be a choice that I can enjoy driving, can afford to purchase, and has decent reliability/serviceability. Same goes for a VW.



While I have your attention, and since I am talking to Autopians, any comments on choice of color? I do like black, but I have heard all the horror stories about BMW's Jet Black (I know there is Black Sapphire Metallic). I don't know too much about VW paint right now, other then people saying it is on the hard side, so I'd like to hear more.



I have a PC, and use the smaller pads to decent effect. I am considering a Flex. I was able to keep my Focus relatively swirl-free last winter, with good wash and dry techniques.



And, I will soon have the time to keep both vehicles looking good : )



I like the sound of that. I think I will go to the fridge and get another Sierra Nevada.



Cheers! (and thanks, everyone!)
 
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