clearcoat history
- Thread starter dougn
- Start date
White95Max
New member
I believe there are still some cars that are not clearcoated. I'm not sure when it starting becoming common though.
Setec Astronomy
Well-known member
GM started mid- to late-'80's.
kartoon
Don't ever drop your clay
Mid 90s for many companies.
Lexus had a black that wasn't clearcoated not too long ago (couple of years). I believe the reason was that clearcoated black shows scratches very easily. Very early 90's, there were many cars that didn't. Mid 90's, GM/Chrysler suffered a lot clearcoat failures so it wasn't until to mid to late 90's that it became truly std.
Accumulator
Well-known member
dougn- What color is the Porsche? My '87 and '91 were both b/c, but they were silver (metallics were often b/c as far back as the early '80s). Some colors were ss for a long time and some cars were offered in certain "special" ss paints (as with the ss Lexus black).
Bill D
Hooked For Life
I think Rolls Royce pioneered clear coat as far back as the '60s. Either that or they were known for an insane amount of coats of color :up
imported_mirrorfinishman
New member
Here's some basic info about 1991 Porsche Paint Codes and Colors.
SINGLE STAGE CONVENTIONAL PAINT:
22C/22GN6 Murano Green
347/K5 Dark Blue
548/E4 Apricot Beige
60M/E2 Linen Gray
700/A1/LO41 Black
80K/G1/G8/25 Guards Red
908/P5/R4 Grand Prix White
CLEAR COAT PAINT:
22D/Q9 Slate Gray Met. CC
22E/W7 Forest Green Met. CC
35V/F7 Marine Blue Met. CC
37B/C7/LM5P Baltic Blue Met. CC
40L/Z7 Cognac Brown Met. CC
550/W5/LM5U Linen Gray Met. CC
693/U8/LY7U Stone Gray Met. CC
697/F5/LM5U Diamond Blue Met. CC
81KZ9 Coral Met. CC
81L/U6/LM3U Velvet Red Met. CC
980/S7 Silver Met. CC
LY1Z/U2 Lt. Gold Met. CC
LY5U/U1 Glacier Blue Met. CC
LY7P/Z6 Titanium Met. CC
LY7T/C6 Crystal Silver Met. CC
LY9Z/L7 Panthero Met. CC
LZ3T/S6 Zyclam Red Met. CC
Noticed how the Porsche metallic colors are all clear coated, while the basic non-metallic colors are not. During the late 1980s and early 90s many of the vehicle manufacturers changed over to clear coating the metallic colors first.
SINGLE STAGE CONVENTIONAL PAINT:
22C/22GN6 Murano Green
347/K5 Dark Blue
548/E4 Apricot Beige
60M/E2 Linen Gray
700/A1/LO41 Black
80K/G1/G8/25 Guards Red
908/P5/R4 Grand Prix White
CLEAR COAT PAINT:
22D/Q9 Slate Gray Met. CC
22E/W7 Forest Green Met. CC
35V/F7 Marine Blue Met. CC
37B/C7/LM5P Baltic Blue Met. CC
40L/Z7 Cognac Brown Met. CC
550/W5/LM5U Linen Gray Met. CC
693/U8/LY7U Stone Gray Met. CC
697/F5/LM5U Diamond Blue Met. CC
81KZ9 Coral Met. CC
81L/U6/LM3U Velvet Red Met. CC
980/S7 Silver Met. CC
LY1Z/U2 Lt. Gold Met. CC
LY5U/U1 Glacier Blue Met. CC
LY7P/Z6 Titanium Met. CC
LY7T/C6 Crystal Silver Met. CC
LY9Z/L7 Panthero Met. CC
LZ3T/S6 Zyclam Red Met. CC
Noticed how the Porsche metallic colors are all clear coated, while the basic non-metallic colors are not. During the late 1980s and early 90s many of the vehicle manufacturers changed over to clear coating the metallic colors first.
Accumulator
Well-known member
Good Porsche info, Mirrorfinishman :xyxthumbs
FWIW, Benz did sorta the same thing, doing their metallics in b/c first. They started doing it in the early '80s, and some of those b/c paintjobs had pretty thin clearcoats.
But my '85 Jag, painted "Rhodium silver" is ss. Kinda weird paint, I'd call it more of a metallic gray than a silver. But it's definitely ss, I got paint transfer onto my pads the day I drove it home from the showroom. SS metallics have a truly unique look, generally you either like 'em (as I do) or you don't.
FWIW, Benz did sorta the same thing, doing their metallics in b/c first. They started doing it in the early '80s, and some of those b/c paintjobs had pretty thin clearcoats.
But my '85 Jag, painted "Rhodium silver" is ss. Kinda weird paint, I'd call it more of a metallic gray than a silver. But it's definitely ss, I got paint transfer onto my pads the day I drove it home from the showroom. SS metallics have a truly unique look, generally you either like 'em (as I do) or you don't.
it's guards red and apparently SS. i am using 3M waffle pads and 3M foam polishing pad glaze with a rotary at about 1400 rpm.
what is the preffered material, pad and rpm now-days. i'm removing fine scratches and oxidation. i think the current results are pretty good but i don't see many people using 3M stuff around here
doug
what is the preffered material, pad and rpm now-days. i'm removing fine scratches and oxidation. i think the current results are pretty good but i don't see many people using 3M stuff around here
doug
landshark_88
New member
My metallic blue '88 Porsche 928 has an origional clear-coat.
imported_mirrorfinishman
New member
landshark_88 said:
According to my information, it looks like all of the Porsche metallic colors were being painted with clear coats all the way back to at least 1980. Not sure what was being done before then.
landshark_88, here's the paint code for your '88 Porsche 928 Venetian Blue Met. CC 35U/F8
Accumulator
Well-known member
dougn said:
I use different 3M products (PI-III RC and MG, pns 05933 and 05937) and I use different pads, so I don't know if I can really be helpful.
If you're happy with your results then that's that
I'd be using a flex backing plate to better accommodate the 911's curves.
I'd probably switch to a PC as soon as possible (as soon as you remove the major problems) so you're using less aggressive measures for a lot of the work. If that Guard's Red is similar to the same color on my '78 then it cuts fairly easily. Heh heh, I'd forgotten all about that car until this moment.
imported_Axe
New member
DId a quick research on this, and found this, quite a few controversial points raised here ::
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"Clear coat" is nothing more than non-pigmented paint. It was originally designed to protect metallic paints, but it is now applied to all colors. It is extremely thin, and it is easily scratched. Never rub the paint with abrasive compounds, or anything that holds dust or soil. This includes dusters, nylon brushes, wash mitts, natural chamois, heavy car covers, and bras. Instead, use cotton towels, natural sea sponges, clear coat-safe paint levelers, light washable car covers, and chip-resistant tape. Maintain the clear coat with a high-quality wax applied four times a year, a light surface polish twice a year, and always wash by hand.
There are many ways to distinguish between clear coat and conventional paint. An easy way to tell is to take a small amount of polishing compound on a white rag and rub a small and inconspicuous painted area of the vehicle. If the color of the vehicle comes off on the rag, the paint is conventional. If not, it is most likely clear coat.
--- end cut
Source bmwworld.com
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"Clear coat" is nothing more than non-pigmented paint. It was originally designed to protect metallic paints, but it is now applied to all colors. It is extremely thin, and it is easily scratched. Never rub the paint with abrasive compounds, or anything that holds dust or soil. This includes dusters, nylon brushes, wash mitts, natural chamois, heavy car covers, and bras. Instead, use cotton towels, natural sea sponges, clear coat-safe paint levelers, light washable car covers, and chip-resistant tape. Maintain the clear coat with a high-quality wax applied four times a year, a light surface polish twice a year, and always wash by hand.
There are many ways to distinguish between clear coat and conventional paint. An easy way to tell is to take a small amount of polishing compound on a white rag and rub a small and inconspicuous painted area of the vehicle. If the color of the vehicle comes off on the rag, the paint is conventional. If not, it is most likely clear coat.
--- end cut
Source bmwworld.com
Accumulator
Well-known member
Axe said:
I wouldn't consider it controversial as much as somewhat oversimplified and outdated in places. MF is safer than cotton, many wash mitts are OK, and plenty of (today's) abrasive compounds are perfectly safe for clearcoats. It's much like other, similar write-ups that were once accurate but haven't been updated since recent sea-changes in detailing technology.
togwt
The Old Grey Whistle Test
Mirrorfinishman- Thank you for the Porcshe paint information
Clear Coat:
Conventional clear coat is two-component isocynate using a non-pigmented paint used to both protect the colour coat and provide a depth to the colour, it is already on 90% of new vehicles It was originally designed to protect metallic paints, but is now applied to all colours. Any product applied on top of the clear coat needs to be transparent otherwise both the paint colour and its depth of shine will be muted
The newest technology is a nano-particle ceramic (Ceramic Clear) that provides an outstanding hardness, premium gloss, distinctness of image and long-lasting colour retention and a hard protective layer.
Most cars manufactured from 1990 on (with the exception of single stage paint systems) have a clear coat. To check, take a cleaner type wax and in an inconspicuous place like a door jam rub the surface using a medium to heavy pressure and wipe off. If there is no paint colour (this is somewhat difficult to see with silver paint) on the cloth it has a clear coat finish.
Clear coat has a thickness of 2-3Mils and contains UVR radiation protection. Removing more that 0.3 mil (0.0003") of clear coat will cause premature paint film failure. As a point of reference a sheet of copy paper is 3.5Mil (0.0035") a surface scratch that will `catch' your fingernail is approximately 0.004" deep
Clear Coat:
Conventional clear coat is two-component isocynate using a non-pigmented paint used to both protect the colour coat and provide a depth to the colour, it is already on 90% of new vehicles It was originally designed to protect metallic paints, but is now applied to all colours. Any product applied on top of the clear coat needs to be transparent otherwise both the paint colour and its depth of shine will be muted
The newest technology is a nano-particle ceramic (Ceramic Clear) that provides an outstanding hardness, premium gloss, distinctness of image and long-lasting colour retention and a hard protective layer.
Most cars manufactured from 1990 on (with the exception of single stage paint systems) have a clear coat. To check, take a cleaner type wax and in an inconspicuous place like a door jam rub the surface using a medium to heavy pressure and wipe off. If there is no paint colour (this is somewhat difficult to see with silver paint) on the cloth it has a clear coat finish.
Clear coat has a thickness of 2-3Mils and contains UVR radiation protection. Removing more that 0.3 mil (0.0003") of clear coat will cause premature paint film failure. As a point of reference a sheet of copy paper is 3.5Mil (0.0035") a surface scratch that will `catch' your fingernail is approximately 0.004" deep
UrGonnaGetWax
New member
Very cool subject here. In 1987 I learned all about the latest Clearcoat finishing process first hand when I was working at a high volume Volkswagen Dealership in
Darien, CT.(06820) . If I am accurate, Volkswagen was the first large auto manufacturing company to start utilizing this new technology. It was a challenge to for me to master the black colors for many years thereafter. Automotive polishing chemicals took 1 or 2 years to formulate new polishes to deal with this new, harder paint. The first thing I noticed about the paint was the ability to 'SAFELY' remove acid rain etchings 100%. With enamels and laquers, you were lucky to polish out 40 to 60% of the top surface etching (whereby you are just improving the finish and not restoring it to perfect). The ironic situation was that the dearlship also sold Jaguars (factory paint was acrylic laquer) and all three cars that fit in the showroom were always etched with acid rain, bad! The Jaguars were selling like hotcakes and they only had time for me to machine polish about 1 or 2 Jaguars per week (usually the fussy cutomers only). How many of you drove domestic cars that had window stickers that read 'clearcoat finish' and found the color of the paint on your rag when you waxed it? I owned a 1993 chevy Blazer S10 (metalic green). During my career, I found plenty of folks who had been duped into believing their vehicles had the latest in paint technology. Were there any lawsuits I don't know. It would be cool if we got some feed back in this forum, from the factory workers from that period of time, who may have witnessed Gm or Ford still trying to use up their 'old stock' enamels on certain colors (always cutting costs!)!
Darien, CT.(06820) . If I am accurate, Volkswagen was the first large auto manufacturing company to start utilizing this new technology. It was a challenge to for me to master the black colors for many years thereafter. Automotive polishing chemicals took 1 or 2 years to formulate new polishes to deal with this new, harder paint. The first thing I noticed about the paint was the ability to 'SAFELY' remove acid rain etchings 100%. With enamels and laquers, you were lucky to polish out 40 to 60% of the top surface etching (whereby you are just improving the finish and not restoring it to perfect). The ironic situation was that the dearlship also sold Jaguars (factory paint was acrylic laquer) and all three cars that fit in the showroom were always etched with acid rain, bad! The Jaguars were selling like hotcakes and they only had time for me to machine polish about 1 or 2 Jaguars per week (usually the fussy cutomers only). How many of you drove domestic cars that had window stickers that read 'clearcoat finish' and found the color of the paint on your rag when you waxed it? I owned a 1993 chevy Blazer S10 (metalic green). During my career, I found plenty of folks who had been duped into believing their vehicles had the latest in paint technology. Were there any lawsuits I don't know. It would be cool if we got some feed back in this forum, from the factory workers from that period of time, who may have witnessed Gm or Ford still trying to use up their 'old stock' enamels on certain colors (always cutting costs!)!