Clay myth or truth...

S

shaw

New member
I recently came across an article discussing clay that peaked my interest. Do overspray clays really remove thin layers of paint each time the surface is clayed? If so, is there any reason for concern?



some text from the article...



"Many people are touting overspray clay as the new way to "clean" your paint. This is somewhat like washing your face by peeling off the top layer of skin. You will uncover a layer of fresh clean skin, but this may not be the most comfortable nor beneficial experience for your face. Clays smooth the surface of paint by grinding off the microscopic high spots of your paint, much like sandpaper smoothes a piece of wood. They are the best way to remove paint overspray, tree sap build up and other impossible to remove surface contaminants. Realize that you are also removing some paint with the contaminants, so usage of a clay should be utilized only after all other more gentle methods of cleaning your paint have failed."
 
I guees that is true (i'm a newbie here) but if you wanted to get that smoothness how else are you going to get it done. POWER man POWER your going to use a tool that might wreak your paint I think this would be the easyest way and the safeest..



patrick
 
shaw said:
I recently came across an article discussing clay that peaked my interest. Do overspray clays really remove thin layers of paint each time the surface is clayed? If so, is there any reason for concern?



some text from the article...



"Many people are touting overspray clay as the new way to "clean" your paint. This is somewhat like washing your face by peeling off the top layer of skin. You will uncover a layer of fresh clean skin, but this may not be the most comfortable nor beneficial experience for your face. Clays smooth the surface of paint by grinding off the microscopic high spots of your paint, much like sandpaper smoothes a piece of wood. They are the best way to remove paint overspray, tree sap build up and other impossible to remove surface contaminants. Realize that you are also removing some paint with the contaminants, so usage of a clay should be utilized only after all other more gentle methods of cleaning your paint have failed."
Click to expand...



I would suggest that to say detailers clay removes paint (other than paint over-spray) is an exaggeration stemming from the fact that clay contains an â€Ëœabrasiveâ€â„¢, a word associated with the removal of paint (as in an abrasive polish)



Detailer's cleaning clay removes embedded pollutants by encapsulation or shearing, lifting debris from the paint film surface and leaves behind an ultra-smooth surface that will make your paint protection adhere better and improve its durability.



All detailing clayâ€â„¢s contain an abrasive; the differences between the types of detailing clayâ€â„¢s are the abrasive levels. Some manufacturers distinguish the differing levels by colour (i.e. Clay Magic Red is a medium abrasive, whereas the Blue is a Fine abrasive.



a) Fine- clay that pulls or shears off the imbedded paint contamination and encapsulates it.

b) Medium- clay is used to remove paint over-spray; it contains an abrasive that abrades, while the clay encapsulates it.



JonM
 
When I clay a yellow car, I notice my clay is yellow. Same with other colors. So yes, it is removing some paint.



I do agree with the notion of washing the car first before claying. If for no other reason than mud washes off and I don't need to muck up my clay with it when the sponge will handle it.



I do suspect that much of the paint that comes off when claying is actually oxidation. A thoroughly oxidized paint results in lots of staining of my clay, my hands, the run-off water, etc. When I clay embedded objects from clean shiny paint I will have no paint staining of the clay, or almost no staining.
 
Newbie question alert!



Paint oxidation is only an issue for NON-clearcoated finishes, right? In other words, for cars that were made before all paint jobs were routinely clear-coated, or for cars that have had some kind of custom paint job.



I think clear-coating was adopted by all car factories as a way of reducing their use of expensive paints and pigments. As a side benefit, it eliminated paint oxidation, but that wasn't the maker's main concern. Is this correct? Or have I left my hat on the wrong hatstand.
 
I was claying last night with Clay Magic and can't see how you could be removing any clearcoat at all with the correct amount of lube. The exception being existing failing clearcoat as previously mentioned.
 
Clutch Cargo said:
...Paint oxidation is only an issue for NON-clearcoated finishes, right? ...
Click to expand...
Oxidation is still the major killer of finishes. Clear coats are still paints they just don't have pigments. They do oxidize.



Most people don't notice it because they don't see the color fading. By the time they notice something it's gotten to the point of cc failure and it's too late.





PC.
 
T. Perinne said:
I was claying last night with Clay Magic and can't see how you could be removing any clearcoat at all with the correct amount of lube. The exception being existing failing clearcoat as previously mentioned.
Click to expand...





clay magic is very mild
 
Yeah, b/c will still oxidize; clearcoat is just clear paint.



Gotta distinquish between "overspray clay" and "detailing clay", two different things. But note that detailing clay will remove *some* forms of overspray (the kind that hasn't really bonded to the vehicle's finish).



Used properly, detailing clay won't even remove much, if any, LSP. Sure won't remove (good) paint.



I've clayed single stage many times without any color transfer. This was, however, "proper" (i.e., very gentle) claying of well-maintained ss. I've also clayed ss and *did* get color transfer, it was mainly from oxidized paint that needed to come off anyhow. Note that most ss (except white) is generally softer than most b/c. So any "aggresssive" claying (or polishing, etc.) will more readily result in "lost paint" when you're dealing with ss. And since it's pigmented, you notice it right away.



But claying properly is such a gentle process that it sure won't do any harm.
 
Good, that's what I was hoping for with Clay Magic... I'm using it on brand new paint that has just finished curing... not that there are a lot of deposits in the clear but I wanted to do one claying to start off with. It really didn't seem that the clay was removing any material at all in the way of clear coat. There weren't any contaminants to remove either for that matter.
 
Here are some facts:



1. If you clay without using proper lubrication, you may polish away fine layers of paint.



2. Anything that sticks up above the layer of lubrication will be "ground down" by the clay. This includes oxidized paint (and clearcoat).



I frequently clay cars without a clearcoat finish and find no sign of paint color coming up on the clay, as you would experience when polishing the same paint.



db
 
My initial thoughts were how much if any paint could be removed by claying? I posted the excerpt to see if I was missing something. I agree with the comments herein from TOGWT and Accumulator. Thanks fellas!



If the clay were removing to any degree, then why are swirls and marring still left after the "good" paint is smoothed? That was one of my thoughts.



As far as paint removal goes, a medium compound will remove some paint in a hurry. Throw in the fact that too aggressive a compound may be used or too many passes are done and you have a much greater concern than the supposed clay abrasion.



The author of the article is old school and believes in old school techniques. For example, no machine tools required for polishing or compounding. Hmmm? Here is part of the summary given on clay-



..."This is one product that is the fast lane to trouble

if not used with extreme care. I do not recommend

this product as a general paint cleaner. You literally

grind off a layer of paint. Should be used as was

intended, to remove paint over spray."





Happy Holidays to all!
 
The answer to the question is subject to methodology. I agree that some detailing clays are CABABLE of removing clearcoat and paint, but when used properly they will not.



I like to spot clean my car first before I clay and get rid of most visible contaminants....tar, bugs, etc. then I clay gently till each panel is nice and smooth. If I get to a part where the clay is dragging I wash the panel, dry and investigate whats going on. I never GRIND the clay into the paint harder and harder in an attempt to level everything out. I always use plenty of lube, I have a hard time believing this gentle process will remove any layers of paint.



As another example, I had purchased the more aggressive RED clay magic once for use on my bumper. Someone had hit my bumper in the parking lot and their red paint was all over my silver paint. It took a bit of rubbing, but I got it all off with the clay, then used some polishing compound, then swirl remover, then AIO, then washed, then wax.
 
Just to chime in my $.02



IMO, If you want a flawless finish or to the least a very smooth shiny surface, then claying is yes optional but if your the type looking for the best, then you need to clay. That said, removing small particles of clear or paint for BC jobs, is a "necessary evil" as someone on here once said awhile back.



To "remove" these imperfections or defects then you need you need to do just that, "remove them. But to do so, you need remove paint, thus remove the defect. I think claying and polishing saw twice a year and if you own a car for 5+ years then I woulnd't loose a minute of sleep over it. Even if I owned the vehicle for 10+ years.



I think it all comes down really to just how picky you are. If you want to keep your car absolutely flawless all the time, then your car will see alot of light polishing. When I say flawless, I'm not including orange peel. Improper washing, drying and buffing techniques will cause the need to keep removing paint until the paint is flawless. I don't think you need to clay your car 4-5 times a year unless you live or park your car in an area that is beside an industrial or work place. Claying twice a year should be sufficient even for the more fiercist perfectionists. I think if you use a fine clay then use it twice a year. Your paint will still last a very long time and yet your car will stay very smooth throughout the years of ownership. So FWIW this is just what I think on the subject,,,,,,,AR
 
As an enthusiast and not a professional here is my $.02.



IMHO using clay with plenty of lube is less likely to create a problem (either short or long term) or to damage the paint than most people create using improper washing/drying techniques. For the casual car nut that just wants their car to look great I think it is one of the easiest, least harmful, and most economical prep tools available.
 
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