Clay Bar and Soapy Water

A

AquaHawk

New member
So I was wondering, if it is safe to use a clay bar with soapy water? I heard that it can cause marring? I used a clay bar with soapy water before and noticed no marring whatsoever, but maybe the paint was extremely hard? What do you think? Is this a safe alternative to lube? (I even heard it's more slick than some lubes and I even thought so as well.)
 
The paint is likely to have a bigger impact on whether or not it is easily marred by the clay.  Lubricity isn't so much the issue with soaps.  I have found that soaps can cause clay to lose its smooth texture and almost become "grainy" feeling rather quickly.  If I'm doing a trashed vehicle like a work truck or something I might use soap and an older piece of clay but if you are worried about marring don't cheap out for a few pennies and risk creating hours of extra work for yourself.  I have found ONR and ONRW to be good, cost-effective lubes.
 
I notice that it get's that "grainy" texture you mention, if I don't clean my clay after I use it with soap. What dilution ratio would you recommend for the ONR lube?
 
There are clays with detergent resistance like the one from Hi-Lustre.  I use it with Dawn - one or two table spoons per quart in a spray bottle.  My standard practice is - wash the car, rinse, don't dry, use the dawn spray and clay and rinse again as I go, then dry.  When I want to fold the clay I rinse with fresh water - if you don't rinse before you fold the clay over you fold detergent into the clay and although the Hi-lustre clay doesn't seem to degrade I still think it's a good idea.


 


I'm not sure if the Dawn really takes the old wax or sealer off or not but it does keep the debris from sticking to the clay and makes the clay more effective.  


 


There's always going to be some marring with clay if you need to use the clay in the first place because the contamination becomes an abrasive as it breaks off the surface and is driven into the paint.  Light pressure and softer clay, warming the clay up first, can help but I always expect to polish after clay.


 


Robert
 
If I'm using a fine clay bar, I shouldn't have to polish afterwards, correct? (if I use the fine bar correctly, it shouldn't mar?)
 
Not necessarily. Some different factors come into play. I look at it this way, how contaminated is the paint, what defects/swirls were already present, is my lubricating spray and did I fold the bar enough, etc... What is the customer expectations?

The short of it is each situation will dictate as to whether or not you will need to polish. When I clay/Nanoskin, I plan on correcting. If I don't need to then it's an added bonus.


Seeing you are a mobile detailer, your time is money but you also want to do the job right. I'm not a pro detailer just sharing my experince and from what I have learned.


Have you considered an "Iron removing" spray to help?
 
AquaHawk...not sure if you've tried the Nanoskin towels or wash mits yet, but if you have not...you must!


I've used clay for years and when someone got me one of these, I was skeptical.  It's the best thing since sliced bread, and I'll never ever go back to clay again.  They work 10x better, last longer, and if you drop it...no problem.  There's less marring and it removes debris so much better.


Just my 0.02...but I think you'd be amazed.
 
If the clay is fine enough, I can clay all my current vehicles without instilling any visible-to-the-naked-eye marring *IF* I do it right.  But the same products can mar the [crap] out of anything if I do it wrong.


 


Remember that the second the clay bar picks up some abrasive it can turn into sandpaper, so if you keep moving it across the panel after that point you can get marring.  So....not planning to move that clay all the way across a contaminated panel, are you?


 


I've tried lots of different things for lubes, but I do best with Glyde.


 


And I'd generally rather do a chemical decontamination instead of claying if doing a full detail.  Let the chemicals soften the contamination and get it off the paint via very gentle washing-type motions instead of with the clay.  Overspray is different, as is "claying the LSP clean", but for general decontamination, I'd go with ABC.
 
So should if I use clay, should I kneed it often and not go across the whole panel? Like do it in sections? Also, what is ABC? I've heard the term before, but have no idea what it is. Also, what is the best product for a chemical decontamination?
 
There are many methods with clay.

I personally wouldn't just knead.

This just kneads in dirty and particles.


Personally, I pull off all big particles first.

I even rip off a tiny bit of clay if need be.



I have been trying to find a thread here,

that was about cleaning clay.


If I remember correctly, someone sprayed clay

with Apc then rubbed with mf to remove most

Dirt from the clay.


I haven't done this personally, still am looking

for verification of the method.


Regardless, I would try and minimize the dirt that

you knead into the clay. If doesn't disappear, and you

can end up scratching with it.


I also like clay bars that I can use small sections at a time.

This way, I am not contaminating the entire bar.
 
The sections thing is just patience.

You will feel the Grit beneath your clay.

Just never use much pressure.


After you feel a bit of Grit, stop.

Inspect your clay. Then continue.


Ymmv, but I don't clay like I wash. When I wash,

I go from top to bottom. With clay, I don't like this

because I imagine the Grit dripping down to where

I am Claying next. This is unneeded, because the

Grit is already off the paint. Now I am giving it another

chance to marr.


I like to do small vertical columns (about 3 inches wide).

I stay from the bottom and move up. This is dangerous

because the bottom could have most Grit. Just be

attentive of your clay.


But going from bottom to top, there's less potential for marring.

In my humble opinion...
 
AquaHawk- I'm utterly fanatical when I clay, but this is just more of my over-the-top nuttiness.  I'll knead/replace the clay a *LOT*, kneading after maybe a few inches of travel and replacing after just a little kneading (I tear my claybar into small pieces and I do go through a lot of clay some times).  I use virtually zero pressure, trying to keep it gliding across the film of lube.


 


For that matter, I generally don't do much of anything in "whole panel" sections or long, sweeping motions.  If you get a scratch, wouldn't you prefer it to be maybe 1" long as opposed to something *really* long?  Little flaws don't show as readily and are easier to correct if you can't live with them.


 


"ABC" is the decontamination system from AutoInt/ValuGard.  It's a series of three products ("A", "B", and "C") that you wash the car with.  VERY VERY GOOD, and safe and easy too.  Gets stuff out of the pores of the paint and IME gives far better results than clay (which generally only works on above-surface contamination).  The chemicals *neutralize* the contamination as well as removing it. 

 


Seriously, just *IMO*, but I think chemical decontamination is the way to go.
 
Thanks everyone for the information! So I was looking at Ironx and can I use that too on that paint? I would like to use it on the rims, which I've seen others do, but it says not to use on bare metal, which would be calipers. Which doesn't make sense because I've seen others use it on the wheels before. Also, can someone point me to an online store where I can get some good wheel brushes? (if there are any for a good price, I'd appreciate it) I've been looking and haven't been too satisfied with my results. Thank you again!
 
AquaHawk- Consider that many/most calipers aren't really "bare metal".  The rotors are (at least the swept areas) but I wouldn't worry about them.  I'd generally expect the IronX to be mild enough that it won't matter on the calipers if they're, say...cad plated.


 


I get my most of my wheel brushes (boar's hair ones) from Griot's, but that's probably the expensive option...
 
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