chemical polish vs. abrasive?

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simplybao

New member
I was reading through the thread on favorite products and noticed that people talked about chemical polish vs. abrasive. If this has been answered before, then I'm sorry.



What's the difference? Well, I know an abrasive can do quite a bit of correction, but what can the chemical do? Say for instance, KAIO?



I have KAIO but I always thought of it more as a cleaner and sealant all in one, am I mistaken?



Can KAIO do any correction?
 
Tackling these in reverse order...



simplybao said:
Can KAIO do any correction?
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I forget what the specs on KAIO's abrasives are..IIRC they *used* to be described as "one-micron" and that was back when it was a stronger product than it is now. But again, that's just from memory.



KAIO is functionally nonabrasive on most automotive paint IME. It won't correct the soft single stage black paint on the windowframes of my Jag or my MPV.

I have KAIO but I always thought of it more as a cleaner and sealant all in one, am I mistaken?
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It's *MUCH* more of a cleaner and less of a sealant. The LSP qualities are vastly overblown in the ad-copy and it doesn't last long at all by itself IME.



I was reading through the thread on favorite products and noticed that people talked about chemical polish vs. abrasive. If this has been answered before, then I'm sorry.



What's the difference? Well, I know an abrasive can do quite a bit of correction, but what can the chemical do? Say for instance, KAIO?
Click to expand...



I've read ad-copy that included claims that chemical polishes would do correction and otherwise solve paint issues that I simply cannot imagine them doing :think: I never did read any sufficiently compelling arguements that might explain how they would do such stuff.



IMO it's another case of where you have to be careful about believing claims that sound too good to be true.



AFAIK, chemical polishes are good for stains and, at least in some/most cases, oxidation. Meguiar's #2 Light Cut Cleaner used to have quite potent chemical cleaners in it, it'd work so well that if you left it on paint for too long that area would be noticeable different from untreated surrounding paint and it could be a challenge to get everything uniform again.
 
Thanks for the replies. Then what really is the purpose of a chemical polish such as KAIO?



Would you use it to remove wax?



My real reason for asking is because I'm looking to re-do a panel on my car. I don't want to remove the LSP on the entire car, just one panel so that I can re-polish it. Should I just buy some wax remover? I'm not sure what wax remover to buy though.
 
There is no such thing as a "chemical polish". All polishes use abrasives, or they aren't true polishes. There are chemical cleaners, such as paint prep solutions and adhesive removers, but these aren't polishes.
 
simplybao said:
My real reason for asking is because I'm looking to re-do a panel on my car. I don't want to remove the LSP on the entire car, just one panel so that I can re-polish it. Should I just buy some wax remover? I'm not sure what wax remover to buy though.
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For simple wax and sealant removal Dawn dish detergent works fine. The high ph makes it very effective.
 
06c350sport said:
For simple wax and sealant removal Dawn dish detergent works fine. The high ph makes it very effective.
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I'm not seeing how I can use dawn to do just a single panel. If I used dawn to wash the car, then I'd have to re-apply LSP to the entire car.



Will an IPA mixture work? Even with collinite? That stuff is hard as nails and it seems like the soap from the spray and wash won't even remove collinite. I've had to work really hard to get collinite to come off.
 
simplybao said:
Thanks for the replies. Then what really is the purpose of a chemical polish such as KAIO?
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Bump for an answer to this. Would like to know myself, since it seems like KAIO is a cleaner wax-style product without much protection. Seems sort of pointless, yet it's hugely popular so I'm definitely missing something here.
 
KAIO does a nice job of removing oxidation from SS paint. Using KAIO prior to clay will keep you from having to kneed the clay as often and likely you'll be able to keep the clay around when you're done with the car. It also is the recommended prep prior to KSG.
 
I use KAIO as a prep step for sealants after polishing.



It cleans up any remaining polishing oils. Basically I use it in place of an IPA wipedown.



BTW the old formula corrected the swirls on my black SS side pillars. But that's some pretty soft paint. The new formula is nothing but a chemical cleaner.



Chemical cleaners are useful though. Even after a thorough wash and clay, if you use KAIO, I'm sure your pad will have picked up some dirt.
 
So if it's mostly a pre-wax cleaner, and designed for use with KSG, can you use it before other sealants with similar results? And is it really any different than something like the WG Paintwork Polish Enhancer or P21S Gloss Enhancing Paintwork Cleanser?
 
Well, KAIO isn't an oily product and I'm not sure about the WG or P21S products but I do think the P21S is on the oily side. Please note that I could be wrong here. KAIO under P21S/S100 paste wax was all the craze a few years back. KAIO does work and play well with most every product I've tried it with.
 
shadow85 said:
Do you have to "work it" to remove oxidation or can you just apply it like a wax and let it sit and wipe off?
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Work it and wipe off. If there is heavy oxidation do smaller sections to keep gumming down. Also clean your pad often in heavy oxidation situations.
 
06c350sport said:
For simple wax and sealant removal Dawn dish detergent works fine. The high ph makes it very effective.
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Just dont believe it, much like these posting of "CG's Citrus Wash at paintwork cleanser strength". I have tried both and find it to be complete nonsense, they are no replacement for chemical paintwork cleaner.



They may well strip old product from the surface of the paintwork to some degree, but do not replace chemical cleaner.



The chemical paintwork cleaner worked in via hand or machine will remove staining and clear the pores of paintwork and achieve a clear finish as well as remove old LSP, oils etc.



Most polishes do contain a paintwork cleaning agent/chemical. Using a stand alone paintwork cleaner is great for garage queens or prepping the paintwork so its free of oils etc.



Geoff
 
simplybao said:
I'm not seeing how I can use dawn to do just a single panel. If I used dawn to wash the car, then I'd have to re-apply LSP to the entire car.



Will an IPA mixture work? Even with collinite? That stuff is hard as nails and it seems like the soap from the spray and wash won't even remove collinite. I've had to work really hard to get collinite to come off.
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You can use IPA to strip the LSP from the panel. It shouldn't be too difficult to wash one panel using Dawn (2 buckets method) without getting it all over the other panels unless you need to wash one of the horizontal panels.
 
mikenap said:
..it seems like KAIO is a cleaner wax-style product without much protection. Seems sort of pointless, yet it's hugely popular so I'm definitely missing something here. ..So if it's mostly a pre-wax cleaner, and designed for use with KSG, can you use it before other sealants with similar results? And is it really any different than something like the WG Paintwork Polish Enhancer or P21S Gloss Enhancing Paintwork Cleanser?
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Note that there's nothing really *wrong* with cleaner-waxes. They are what they are and that's nothing *bad*. Their only shortcomings are inherent in anything that tries to do incompatible processes simultaneously.



Yeah, you can use KAIO before other sealants and also before other waxes. It works well and as noted it give you a nice clean starting point. But as it removes fillers/oils without leaving any such stuff of its own, it can "uncover" hidden marring, which might/might *not* be what you want.



A similar product with a lot more abrasive cut is Zaino AIO, another very handy product to have on-hand. IME it lasts longer than KAIO when left untopped.



A similar product that does decent concealing is AutoGlym Super Resin Polish. It doesn't clean quite as well as KAIO but it contains *slightly* more aggressive abrasives (not nearly as aggressive as Zaino AIO has though). SRP lasts longer IME than KAIO or ZAIO (close call there though) and, oddly enough, it can be layered for even more durability (and concealing) if you do it right. (Yeah, I know..."layering" a cleaner product that contains abrasives?!? I didn't believe it either until I experimented. It does it for me but YMMV.) SRP leaves a slightly darker/richer look, KAIO and ZAIO are brighter and more reflective. Incredibly user-friendly stuff too.



SRP topped with Collinite 476S is one very nice looking, very durable combo that's super for finishes that aren't quite 100%. SRP topped with Souveran is what I use on my '85 Jag.



The P21s is like a paintcleaner/glaze/*very* mild abrasive combo. IME it doesn't do any of those things as well as other products and I for one am not a fan of the stuff. But hey, others do like it. Unlike the KAIO/ZAIO/SRP it doesn't provide any lasting protection of its own so you need to top it immediately.



BTW the old formula corrected the swirls on my black SS side pillars.
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The ZAIO is even more aggressive than that (aggressive enough that you need to watch what you use it on). I'd guess that the Workstadt Strong (?sp?) is similar to the old version of KAIO. Wonder if SRP would correct those :think: It'll do *very* mild correction on the Jag's pillars but not the MPV's.



simplybao said:
Will an IPA mixture work? Even with collinite? That stuff is hard as nails and it seems like the soap from the spray and wash won't even remove collinite. I've had to work really hard to get collinite to come off.
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IPA will get through Collinite, but PrepSol/etc. work a lot better.



06c350sport said:
For simple wax and sealant removal Dawn dish detergent works fine. The high ph makes it very effective.
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IME Dawn works better on some LSPs than on others. David B and I have had some very differing experiences with it in this regard and he's sometimes (IIRC) used straight/undiluted Dawn to remove some LSPs (sheesh, imagine the sudsing/rinsing!).



Dawn doesn't do much on healthy Collinite 476S IME. Or layered KSG. But then not too many products do, short of solvents and/or stuff like AutoInt/ValuGard "A" and FK1119, both of which are great "super shampoos". Even TAW has a bit of trouble on some durable LSPs.
 
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