Carnuba & Microfiber?

Lazzman

Lazzman

New member
I recall reading on a detailer retail sight a year or two back, where they suggested using Diaper clothes or Terry cloth towels to remove Carnuba Wax.



Stating that Microfiber cleans so well that it would actually pull most of the wax off of the paint.



Quote from site:



"No need to let the product dry. Wipe-off with cotton terry towel, baby diaper or polisher bonnet. Do not use a microfiber towel. It will remove the Carnauba wax as well. "





Is this statement true or false?



Sounds like it could be logical but is it factual? I know many manufacturers that suggest removing wax with a microfiber cloth.



For many years and until recently, I recall Sal Zaino specified Terry cloth for removing his products. But I believe he was concerned about cheap microfiber scratching paint.
 
There are different types of MF and the cheap ones will scratch the paint. The expensive ones wont. Just research and look at the vendors prices on various MFs.
 
Autopia actually put out a cotton detailing cloth a few years back that is now discontinued, it was made specifically for Carnuba wax removal and QD application.



Called the Concourse Buffing Towel.



Not sure why it failed :nixweiss



Even Zymol suggests the use of Cotton Terry cloth with the removal of their wax's.
 
detail1 said:
There are different types of MF and the cheap ones will scratch the paint. The expensive ones wont. Just research and look at the vendors prices on various MFs.
Click to expand...

Not true. Not all cheaper mf's scratch.
 
Not really sure what's going on here. The OP asked if a MF will remove the carnauba, not if it will scratch paint. And I'm still wondering how the cheap vs non-cheap MF debate got started.



I would like to know exactly which product specifically prohibits the use of MF. I've never heard of that before.



However, as I think about it. It really does make a lot of sense!!



Carnauba wax is mixed in with solvents and oils to make it easier to apply to a metal surface. (As we all know, raw carnauba is like a rock, and would not lend itself well to spreading).



In this case, the directions state that you don't need to let the product dry. Which suggests to me that the carnauba is still suspended in the oils/solvents. Something incredible absorbent (like microfiber) would probably mop up all of those oils, ALONG WITH, the carnauba wax that is still suspended in it!!



Perhaps this product is formulated in a way that requires you to massage the wax into the paint. Sorry for the lack of technical terms. But I'm think that this might be along the same lines as a shoe polish, or leather conditioner, where the product has to be worked into the surface. Absorbent towels would certainly hinder that kind of effort.



I have a couple of waxes that say "No need to let the product dry", but none of them specifically prohibit the use of Microfiber. However, I think it's worth a shot to try using these products with cotton or terry towels and see if there is any difference in slickness, or durability.
 
lazzman said:
.... Do not use a microfiber towel. It will remove the Carnauba wax as well. "





Is this statement true or false?



Sounds like it could be logical but is it factual? I know many manufacturers that suggest removing wax with a microfiber cloth...."
Click to expand...
To me this smells like a classic case of “somebody said it once and a bunch of others keep repeating it.”



I’ve read it too. But those who say it never offer anything that supports the hypothesis nor any way to check it for yourself. They just throw it out as a “fact.”



Maybe it is, maybe not. All I can tell you is that I always remove wax (natural or synthetic) with microfibers and I’ve never experienced anything that suggested I was unsuccessful in leaving the finish “waxed.”



I think it would be great if you were to ask the people who say it why they say it. Then report back to us what you find.





pc.
 
I agree with the other.

I've always thought that answers to questions on these forums should be qualified, ie:

I've given you advice that's based on (see below):"

"Although I've never used the product you're asking about."

"I read that somewhere, and my above opinion is parroting that."

"I used that product once (twice, thousands of times), and my answer is based on that."

"I have no personal experience with that product, but I did read about here (Http://blahblah)"

"I used that product yesterday and really had no chance to observe long term characteristics of that product."

"I have no personal experience with that product, but (_____) said...."



And the 2nd qualifier should be:

"I've detailed (______) cars in my lifetime." or, "I've been detailing for (__) years/months/days/hours/never."



There's probably other qualifiers that would be just as useful.



I'm not saying answers aren't useful. Just saying answers would be more helpful if they were qualified somehow.
 
I have never used anything BUT microfiber when removing the carnauba waxes I use (Nattys Blue, Supernatural, XMT180), and I still have had good luck with the waxes.



But I do typically let the waxes dry a few minutes before removing them, so I dont folllow that sites direction, specifically.









In my opinion, the manufacturer who said that either has an agenda behind his statement, such as selling his towels, or is simply misinformed.
 
That info comes from Top of the Line site.



They suggest terry cloth and no Microfiber, for the reasons stated in an above post, "Microfiber will remove the wax" as a retailer I don't know how it could be in their best interests to push a $1 terry towel over a $6 microfiber??



Zymol also suggests using nothing but Terry Cloth or their new specialized towel, which is not microfiber to remove their wax.



Also if you do like I do and use a Carnuba over a sealent it doesn't really give the wax a decent place to bond.



I have experience using Microfiber on Wax and have never had a problem, though I was wondering if Terry Cloth left a thicker coating of wax on the paint?



I am going to test both methods and report back :har:
 
Other PC, Heatgain, are you referring to my post? If so, I think you should re-read it. It's full of words like "perhaps", "probably", "suggests to me", "i think", and "try and see if there is a difference". I don't think that anything I said could, or should, be interpreted as absolute fact. Just some common sense knowledge mixed in with some educated guesses. No additional qualifiers necessary.



However, if you weren't referring to my post, then sorry for the misunderstanding.



I'm still waiting to here exactly which product we are talking about.



Hopefully that will help squelch some of the speculation.



However, in this case, it's not a forum member making these claims. It's the actual product manufacturer, and/or distributor. Depending on who it is, that should carry at least SOME credibility, and doesn't necessary need much more qualification.



Can the OP please post a link, or give us a name of who said that you can't remove their wax with a MF towel?



Clearly there is more to this story. I would like to know what that is before I accept this as fact, or write it off as a crock.
 
Allow product to haze. Wipe with clean terry towel or cotton diaper. (DO NOT buff fresh sealant with a microfiber towel. It will remove ALL of the wax.) Re-apply every 6 months, or as needed.



That came directly from the TOTL site. It's THEIR product, formulated by THEM. I would think TOTL would know the best practices for using their own product.



Also, these instructions seem to be specific to this one product. They don't make this claim regarding their other LSP, SmartWax.



Based on my limited knowledge of chemistry and wax manufacturing, I think that the "no MF" instruction is probably legit. It sounds to me like the carnauba is suspended in a liquid when it is applied. Absorbing that liquid in a MF towel would be counterproductive.



This seems to be further supported by the fact that they specifically mention "fresh sealant". This seems to follow along with my theory and is similar to almost every other carnauba LSP out there that requires the suspension liquid to dry a bit before removing the residue.



Though, I'm not sure why a cotton or terry cloth wouldn't also absorb the liquid. I simply don't know enough about those kind of towels to comment.



But basically, I would always follow the manufacturer's directions. From what I can see, TOTL doesn't seem to have any specific agenda against Microfiber. Nor do they make any broad, categorical claims like "using MF removes wax". They only make the one claim, regarding a single product. Which, they themselves created.



If the bottle says don't do it, then don't do it.
 
No. I'm referring to all posts. Been thinking about the qualifiers for a long time. Most questions on these forums have as many different answers as there are posters, so I was thinking qualifiers would help when any OP makes his decision based on all the answers.

I did not mean your post. :)



Less said:
Other PC, Heatgain, are you referring to my post?
Click to expand...
 
Here is the link to the wax.



Black Velvet Carnauba Wax



Top of the Line does not suggest using micro fiber with any of their Carnuba Waxes, for reasons stated in the application guide.



As I mentioned Zymol suggests Terry Cloth also on their web site, though Top of the line is the only one that specifically states not to use micro fiber as it will remove the wax.
 
The Jury is in and from my experiments I did indeed find using Terry cloth to remove wax is much better than Micro fiber towels. The wax coating was much thicker and deeper.



My new method for Carnuba removal will be:



1. Apply Carnuba to a polished surface using a clean foam applicator​

2. Let wax haze for a few minutes and remove with Zymol Microwipe​

3. Wait 20 minutes and buff with my flex using a terry cloth bonnet​



Try this yourself and see if it does not make a difference in the look of the wax. After trying this myself I saw a definate differance and am convinced that Microfiber does remove some of the wax.:buffing:
 
lazzman said:
The Jury is in and from my experiments I did indeed find using Terry cloth to remove wax is much better than Micro fiber towels. The wax coating was much thicker and deeper.



My new method for Carnuba removal will be:



1. Apply Carnuba to a polished surface using a clean foam applicator​

2. Let wax haze for a few minutes and remove with Zymol Microwipe​

3. Wait 20 minutes and buff with my flex using a terry cloth bonnet​



Try this yourself and see if it does not make a difference in the look of the wax. After trying this myself I saw a definate differance and am convinced that Microfiber does remove some of the wax.:buffing:
Click to expand...



Interesting. Are there any good OTC Terry clothes or cotton?



It seems that while the wax is hazing, it is probably setting and bonding to the paint, that's the point of letting it haze. Then, when buffed off there is a light dust, which means it can't really be absorbed if it is already bonded. You guys are probably more knowledgeable than me though.
 
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