Carnauba isn't cutting it.. Klasse time?

I

imported_truzoom

New member
I have noticed that lately my finish has been losing protection/slickness/beading within a relatively short time after detailing. My apartment complex has a few pines/evergreens here and there, but I avoid parking near them so sap isn't really the culprit AFAIK. I DO park near a dry cleaners at work and I notice the place has steam stacks that are usually releasing some sort of exhaust, but I do not know if it is some chemical vapor or just water.



Either way, #16 didn't even last 2 weeks on my outside-kept vehicle, especially on horizontal surfaces. I will notice after washing that my roof especially looks like it is void of anything. Water spots on it and when drying you can notice that water seems to 'stick' to certain spots here and there. The same goes for QDing because my MF just won't glide over it as smooth as it does on vertical panels.



I'd try some IW845, but if I'm going to be making an online order, I might as well step up to some sort of polymer that seems 'proven'. My paint is red so I'm not too concerned with the whole 'plastic wrap' look of SG (protection matters more), but I'm worried about the application, as I've heard MANY stories of how painful it is to apply SG correctly.



Which brings me to a point- If you are trying to apply SG so thin that it doesn't look like it's going on, how do you know it is going on?



I've chosen to not consider Zaino, so that's just a personal decision.



Any help?
 
I believe so, but ask Scottwax or maybe someone else will chime in. I just put it on last weekend.
 
That exhaust coming from the dry cleaners is much more than just water vapor. I don't know if the exhaust will lose its energy(heat) quick enough to get any fall out on your car, but I would try to park far away.
 
truzoom said:
I.. I've heard MANY stories of how painful it is to apply SG correctly.



Which brings me to a point- If you are trying to apply SG so thin that it doesn't look like it's going on, how do you know it is going on??
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I never find SG tough to use, but plenty of others sure do :nixweiss



The surfaces that have SG on them feel a little different from the not-yet-treated surfaces, so you can go by tactile cues.



I put a few products on that thin, you just have to work systematically/methodically and pay attention to what you're doing. It's a lot simpler than it might seem ;) There's really nothing to it other than keeping your attention focused.
 
Easiest way to that I found to use SG is to put a dime sized drop on a clean applicator, scrunch (or fold) the applicator so that the product absorbs into the pad, then lightly wipe it onto the paint. In following the WOWO, I then wipe off.



Accumulator,

I've been playing around with SG diluted 1:1 with water in a mister bottle. Seems pretty easy to apply and remove; have you tried SG this way? Your in essence making a spray wax, right? Any thoughts?
 
RCBuddha- Nah, I just put a little (very little ;) ) SG on a foam applicator, wipe it on, let it set up for a while, often overnight. Buffs right off. In keeping with my not-broke-don't-fix philosophy, I just keep doing it the way that's always worked for me. I *do* use W-O-W-O on black plastic trim though, seems less prone to streaking.



I'm not gonna try diluting it as I honestly believe that if it were better with water added in they'd make it that way (and presumably reap a greater profit by selling "watered down" product). I'm not gonna do anything that might compromise the durability (not saying that any of the ideas that get floated *would* do that, but I won't wanna mess with success).



Note that the only vehicle I use it on these days is my minivan anyhow, other than that I just use it for wheels and trim.
 
truzoom said:
Which brings me to a point- If you are trying to apply SG so thin that it doesn't look like it's going on, how do you know it is going on?
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You don't. You apply it to the pad and wonder if it's going onto the car or not. And if you're using a damp pad, you get to really wonder if you're seeing the KSG evaporating, or just water evaporating from the paint.



Applying a dime size dollop to the pad and getting it evenly applied over the paint is an exercise in frustration. Try washing a dirty car with a cotton ball some time just to prove the point. A method some use (no experience myself) is to spritz the KSG onto the pad, better coating the surface and hopefully better coating the car. Makes sense to me, but like I said, I've no experience. If you're working with a dry pad, it's quite likely to cure onto the pad that way.



As much as I like KSG, and I do, I've found NXT to be a very good alternative to it. It's easier and quicker to apply, looks a little better, and lasts about as long. NXT is also cheaper and available everywhere.
 
foxtrapper said:
You don't [know you've applied SG]. You apply it to the pad and wonder if it's going onto the car or not...
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Not to sound all :argue but, having applied SG innumerable times over many years,

I completely disagree with the above.



I use far less SG on the pad that what RCBuddha described and I certainly wouldn't characterize my applications of SG as "an exercise in futility" when I a) get all the benefits of SG, b) do so with a method that I find very easy, and c) can make my bottle of product last for many, many years.



Any excess product is merely buffed off anyhow, there's no benefit beyond applying the miniscule amount that it takes to cover the surface. I've tried heavier applications and found no benefits but numerous problems. This ultra-thin method of application works, period. If it didn't, I'd change how I apply SG until I found a method that *did* work and I'd advocate *that* method instead.
 
Accumulator said:
Not to sound all :argue but, having applied SG innumerable times over many years,

I completely disagree with the above.



I use far less SG on the pad that what RCBuddha described and I certainly wouldn't characterize my applications of SG as "an exercise in futility" when I a) get all the benefits of SG, b) do so with a method that I find very easy, and c) can make my bottle of product last for many, many years.



Any excess product is merely buffed off anyhow, there's no benefit beyond applying the miniscule amount that it takes to cover the surface. I've tried heavier applications and found no benefits but numerous problems. This ultra-thin method of application works, period. If it didn't, I'd change how I apply SG until I found a method that *did* work and I'd advocate *that* method instead.
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"Exercise in futility" aren't words I wrote. You're railing against the wrong person.
 
truzoom said:
Is it proven to be pretty durable?
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I have tested it on my Jimmy this winter and the results were great. had prime and 2 coats of AJ on for a few months before I went over the whole truck with the combo. check out some of durability findings that Scottwax posted recently. have I tested it to the end of it's cycle ? no but as an Autopian we do not let it go that far. besides with Trigger you can apply a layer in the time it would take to do a QD on your car. as always it is a matter of choice, what works for one person may not for another. the bad thing about the JW twins is that you may find yourself with lots of time to :tumblewee ha ha ha ha ha ha ha .
 
foxtrapper said:
"Exercise in futility" aren't words I wrote. You're railing against the wrong person.
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OOPS :o Yeah, you wrote "exercise in frustration" which is matter of personal experience/perception and one where our experiences differ. My bad, and I apologize.



Thanks for your restrained correction of my mistake; would've served me right if you'd *really* flamed me.



I still disagree about whether one can tell if so-thin-you-can't-see-it applications are being applied. I wasn't ranting against the wrong person, I merely misread part of what you posted and ran with it. And run with it I did...that was a rather overdone reply I posted there.
 
Accumulator said:
OOPS :o Yeah, you wrote "exercise in frustration" which is matter of personal experience/perception and one where our experiences differ. My bad, and I apologize.



Thanks for your restrained correction of my mistake; would've served me right if you'd *really* flamed me.



I still disagree about whether one can tell if so-thin-you-can't-see-it applications are being applied. I wasn't ranting against the wrong person, I merely misread part of what you posted and ran with it. And run with it I did...that was a rather overdone reply I posted there.
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Well maybe you've caught onto something others like me haven't when applying SG. And if so, I'd like to learn it.



When you apply SG or even AIO with a damp sponge or applicator you leave a film of water as you wipe the painted surface. Water flash evaporates. And in doing some rather boring studies of SG, thin films of SG flash evaporate at about the same rate. So when I'm using a damp sponge, I really can't tell if I'm seeing water evaporate, or the SG. It leaves me at a loss as to when I truly need to put a dab onto the sponge again.



When using a dry sponge you know what you're seeing is SG (or AIO), but a dime sized dollop on a sponge gives you a quarter sized dollop at best to smear around on the car. And I find trying to uniformly smear a quarter all over my painted surfaces to be very frustrating. It's not impossible, but it sure is hard to do.



The dize size dollop from the bottle being expanded to a quarter sized dollop applies just about the same with a damp spong as with a dry sponge (or buffing wheel, or mf, etc). That's where the idea of using a spritzer bottle to spray it over the entire sponge has some apparent advantages. I know I find applying NXT far easier for example, and a good portion of that is because of the spray bottle it's in.



Another entertaining semi-problem with SG is the way it dries on the sponge. It very quickly starts to dry/cure on the edges where it's not constantly saturated with fresh liquid. It's an air cure/dry, and anywhere it makes contact with air, it sets up.



Your comments & observations are solicited.
 
I'm by no means an expert, but I personally only use a damp applicator when applying a paste carnauba as I find it helps to break it up and moisten it/soften it just enough to aid in ease of application for such waxes as 1000P, #16, and Natty's Blue.



With sealants like SG, Z2Pro, EX-P, etc. they are so "watery" in nature that I tend to stay away from any sort of dampening because I feel that if spraying the pad with a detail spray, say Sonus AS when using SG, how do you know you're not just working the SG into the PAD more than onto the PAINT, and you're not just smearing around a miniscule amount of SG and moreso a noticeable amount of said detail spray? Much along the same lines as what foxtrapper is saying with water.



Maybe it's just me being paranoid, too :D
 
Foxtrapper- Again, I have to commend you on your reasoned (and reasonable) posting.



Let's see if I can present something of value about how I use the SG...it might just be one of those things that work for somebody (me) but not for somebody else (you) and as I often say, no point in struggling with products that don't work for ya.



I use a dry applicator. I apply SG to it by holding the app over the mouth of the SG bottle and shaking it. I move the app and shake again, repeating until the app is slightly damp with SG. I then rub the applicator against itself to further distribute the SG and perhaps add a little more with the same method. Yeah, it *is* a bit of a pain but I've done it so often that I'm used to it.



This small amount of SG will cover a rather limited area, perhaps a quarter/third of a panel. As I apply, I feel the SG acting as a lubricant between the app and the panel, it grabs just a little until the SG has been deposited, then it glides smoothly. This is how I keep track of what I've covered/not (besides working systematically/methodically). As I progress across the panel, at some point the lubrication effect diminishes, indicating a lack of SG. I note where I am on the panel and add more SG by doing the shake/repostion/rub thing again. I resume applying where I left off and I repeat this until I've done the whole vehicle. Note that currently I'm only using SG on my minivan, which is a bit more of a job than when I used it on a WRX- it certainly takes both a certain mindset and a certain level of focus. Perhaps this is one reason why I like to let the SG set up overnight after applying- by the time I've finished washing/drying the thing and applying the SG in this manner, I've had enough.



I don't really have a problem with the SG drying on the app as I need to put more on quite frequently. It runs dry with regard to having enough to apply before it runs dry due to flashing/air-drying. Also, the climate-controlled shop might factor in, especially during the hot months.



If the SG didn't last so incredibly long for me (I *still* literally stand there shaking my head sometimes even though I know what I can expect) I'd never bother with it. All-in-all, I'd generally rather apply another product more often (as you do with the NXT), and that *is* what I do on all our other vehicles. But I find it handy to be able to merely wash/dry the minivan for months on end while I devote more time/energy to the others.
 
FWIW, I use a very similar method as Accumulator's with AIO, SG, and other sealants such as UPP.



For AIO, I do use a damp sponge applicator pad. I make a small diagonal line on the pad, sort of squishing the lid of the bottle against the pad as I do this, which spreads it out. Then I fold the pad in half, which creates an X of product on the pad. Then as I apply, I watch to see the product flash off. As Accumulator says, you can feel the pad as it loses the product to the point there is no more being applied.



For SG and UPP, I do the same thing but with a dry pad. I've had problems (streaking, oily films that are hard to remove) come up with both products when I've tried them with a damp pad. I also buff both of these off with a dry MF, as opposed to a slightly damp one for AIO.



Another Sg technique that worked for me was to use a very soft, old cotton t-shirt cut into about a 10" square. scruched up, put a drop or two of SG on it, and buff in. The first couple times I did SG I did it like this based on a suuggestio nfrom someone here (BradB, I think?) and I complained that it looked like the product was absorbing into the paint as I did it. Everyone then told me that indicated it was exactly the right amount....



Andrew
 
AIO + SG + 845

SG worked great with MF applicator by hand, and I am not experience at all. I found it easier than 845 application, I always apply too much of 845 (using PC) – but I can live with that since nothing matches water beating after 845.

:bow
 
I just got my Klasse 3 in one sealer and my P21S Carnuba wax. I did the Klasse first, then followed with the wax. The truck really shines.

I read on this site that was a way to go. Any other recommendations?

Thanks and good luck.

Christine
 
VelvetRose- Welcome to Autopia!



If you like how it looks and you're not having any problems, then I'd say you don't need many recommendations :D



I'd keep an eye on the beading when you wash and reapply the P21s when you notice a change, like bigger/more irregularly-shaped beads.



That and washing carefully (to avoid marring the paint) are all I can think of.
 
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