Brown rust looking dots on my paint.

R

RVC

New member
I recently purchased a 2011 MB C300 its white, in very good condition. The first day I got it I washed, clayed, machine polished with my PC used orange pad with wolfgang 3.0 to start....long story short there are still these little brown rust looking spots on the car. They may be hard water stains but I am having trouble removing them whatever they are. The car is white and i don't think it was ever properly detailed. Any ideas? Thanks for the help!



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RVC said:
I recently purchased a 2011 MB C300 its white, in very good condition. The first day I got it I washed, clayed, machine polished with my PC used orange pad with wolfgang 3.0 to start....long story short there are still these little brown rust looking spots on the car. They may be hard water stains but I am having trouble removing them whatever they are. The car is white and i don't think it was ever properly detailed. Any ideas? Thanks for the help!



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Without pictures or a video, it is hard to say but it sounds like you may have rust blooms on your car which is a shame for how new the car is. Claying will remove rust blooms but they will come back unless you decontaminate your paint. Two common brands of decontamination are Valuguards ABC system and the system by Finish Kare. My car is 13 years old and last year I noticed rust blooms so I bought Finish Kare's and did a very thorough detail of my car.



APC spray down -> Chemical Guys Citrus Wash and Clear at paint cleaning concentration -> Meguiars Body Solvent to remove any left over tar, sap, etc. -> Chem Guys CW&C and normal conentration (a thorough rinse would probably have been enough but oh well) -> the Step 1 Akaline product of FK Decon Kit -> the Step 2 Acid product of the FK Decon Kit and clayed with medium grade clay while the acid dwelled on the paint. That makes your clay act like it is on sterioids -> Step 3 Neutralizing Soap from the FK Decon Kit (regular car soap probably would have been fine) -> Compound Polish -> Medium Polish -> Medium Polish -> Light polish (possibly over kill) -> Burnish polish -> Citrus Wash and Clear at near paint cleaning concentration to remove polishing oils -> Finish Kare All in One -> Finish Kare Sealant (received by accident, not a bad sealant) -> wait a day to allow curing and then Finish Kare Hi Temp Paste Wax. No more rust blooms.



What I did was extremely throrough and probably more than you need. The Akaline and Acid steps are probably more than enough to get rid of the rust blooms if that is what you are finding on your car.
 
Oh so there is hope to remove these rust blooms. That's probably what they are, they loook like little rust spots on top of the paint. So your method is very in depth and i do not understand a good majority of it! What exactly do I have to buy? There is the Decon kit and i will get a medium clay? Thanks for the great response. Will these blooms ruin my paint?



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Richard Grasa said:
RVC, see this thread about rust blooms and the ABC Neutralization system Ron talks about in it. It's available at www.valugard.net and is OEM approved by many manufacturers to treat such problems and the price of the system is very reasonable. There is also a free training video on that site that shows exactly how to use it.



http://www.autopia.org/forum/autopia-detailing-wiki/141060-removing-rust-spots-rust-blooms.html
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Thanks Rich.

The use of clay was originally for paint overspray, which it is very good at for most paint overspray removal.

The Finish Kare #1119-883 system was developed while I was National Sales Manager for the company, however, as paint systems changed, it started to exhibit negative results to the paint over a period of time. I could not get Floyd, the owner of FK to make some chemical changes.

Floyd was a "leader" at one time in the car care industry, however, as happens so often as we all grow older, he was locked in the past and so since I had developed strong working relationships with the vehicle manufacturers and their paint suppliers, and could not get him to change, I resigned and went elsewhere.

That was in 1996, and I joined Automotive International, providers to Ford, Chrysler, etc,(now a provider of chemical car care products to 9 of the world's largest vehicle manufacturers.

The brand that they market under is ValuGard Products.

The website and the training video's, as well as Technical Service Bulletins for the vehicle manufactuers dealer use is at ValuGard.net.

As soon as I moved to and got my office in place, I started the chemical formula changes requested by Ford, Chrysler, Hyundia, Mazda, etc, to make the "system" safe for the paint of the vehicles, as well as the people who used it.

PPG, DuPont, BASF, ShermanWilliams, all approved the changes, which meant the the car companies then put the system through their "World Wide Health and Safety" testing labs.

See, it is not just enough that the paint suppliers approve a product or such, but that the approved products will not harm the enviorment or those who used them.

The "issue" that started this thread is termed as "IFO" or "rail dust" or "ferrous metal fallout" by the vehicle manufacturers.

I have spent over 27 years of working with this issue and that may be why I am not pleased when folks who care about their vehicles chose to take a path that is not approved or proven, by the vehicle manufacturers or their paint suppliers.

Grumpy
 
Thanks for the info, you guys made my day. I am going to buy the ABC kit....$55 is cheap to fix this problem. Thanks again!



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RVC, just "follow the directions", don't get in a hurry, use the little white pad for the B product, allow proper dwell time and if really bad, like they say, you may have to repeat.

One kit will do 10 to 15 cars if mix ratio's are followed, so you to a lot of product, plus the "C" Detail Wash is not a "soap", but a "shampoo" and since one ounce makes one gallon of car wash solution, you got a lot of car washes ahead of you.

It's base is, coconut oil, the same cleaning surfactant that is the base of any quality hair shampoo, so will not damage the paint of your vehicle when you use it as a regular, every time, car wash.
 
It looks like you already received some stellar advice for your paint woes and I thought I would chime in with my two cents. I have heard of the 3-step FK decon system but I have never used it. A product that I use regularly to remove ferrous iron particles from neglected paint is Iron-X by CarPro. It dissolves iron into a water soluble liquid that can be rinsed away easily. It is also pH neutral and is a 1 chemical, simple to use system. Spray on, let dwell for a few minutes, agitate lightly, then rinse away. All of the iron particles turn purple as they dissolve.



I usually do a test spot on a panel with my clay and if the car is really badly contaminated it gets treated with Iron-X first. It really cuts down on the time required to clay and does a much, much better job than claying alone. It's relatively cheap too considering what a great job it does.
 
Thanks for the help everyone I am going to try to do this next week. Will the "agitating" part mar my paint?



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RVC said:
Thanks for the help everyone I am going to try to do this next week. Will the "agitating" part mar my paint?
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I just agitate lightly with a soapy wash mitt. By that point the paint should have already been through a traditional wash to prep for the Iron-X (or similar product) decon step. I could see a potential for marring on softer clears if no soap was used to agitate. Something like ONR or whatever soap you used during the wash should work fine as a layer of lubrication to prevent marring. It dilutes the Iron-X a little but you will be rinsing everything away after a minute or two anyway.
 
RVC said:
.. Will the "agitating" part mar my paint?
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Three things to consider-

1) Be sure to get all the dirt off before you do the "B"/acidic step so you're not rubbing dirt into the paint.

2) Be a little careful about the contamination itself. The "B"/acid usually "eats it up" but you don't want to rub a bit of rust into the paint.

3) Consider what you use for the "scrubbing media". I usually use a cotton chenille wash mitt, but last time I did this I used the AI/VG Bug Pad (at Ron's suggestion). While I had some *SERIOUS* concerns about whether it'd be soft enough, it did not mar the clear on the car in question (Ford clear, medium hardness).
 
Which is why ValuGard is very specfic regarding the process.

Complete rinsing of the vehicle before starting the application of the "A" product.

This removes and soften hard dirt deposits, etc, after all water is the "universal solvent" for dirt, etc.

The "A" product cleans and removes all dirt/soil and most stains, opens the paint, deep cleans the pores. This is when the damaging acid rain deposits down in the paint's pores is neutralized and removed.

The vehicle is then rinsed and the "top surfaces" have excess water removed with a towel or such. Not necessary to dry the glass or the sides of the vehicle as the excess water on the sides will run off on it's own, the glass will be washed again later with the "C" Detail Wash product.

It is important that the excess water be removed from the trunk, top and hood so it will not dilute the "B" product when it is applied, as that would reduce it's effectiveness.

The "B" should must be applied liberally, using a despenser bottle, not a "sprayer" bottle.

Application of the "B" in sufficent amounts creates two things, 1. it allows the product to desolve and remove the ferrous metal deposits and continues the deep cleaning of the paint's pores to remove mineral deposits, etc.

As the "B" is a blend of safe acids, it is very important that the "C" product is used for the final washing to insure the paint system will be pH neutral once all steps are completed.

The VG-IS Pad that is in the kit will not scratch or mar the paint when used with sufficent "B" on the surface as the "B" also provides lubricity to reduce the opportunity for marring.

Once the two steps are completed and satisfactory removal is obtained, is when the "B" is rinsed off, followed by a complete "detail" washing of the entire vehicle, including the glass, etc.

The "C" completes the neutralization and cleaning of the vehicles paint, trim, etc. "C" is not a "soap", but is a true "shampoo", with a coconut diamede base, the same as all fine hair shampoos.

Once this is completed, then a complete and full drying of the entire vehicle is done.

After one has done the process a time or two, learn to have all the products mixed, etc so as to not waste time while doing the "ABC", they will find that their time of labor should be equal to the time studies done by Ford, Chrysler, Mazda, Hyundia, Kia, Nissan, etc, which is less than 45 minutes total, for the average vehicle.

Van's, trucks, of course require more time to do.

Grumpy
 
Ron Ketcham said:
The Finish Kare #1119-883 system was developed while I was National Sales Manager for the company, however, as paint systems changed, it started to exhibit negative results to the paint over a period of time. l
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What type of negative results?
 
bert31 said:
What type of negative results?
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Due to the #1119 being basically keosene, there is ground water contamination issue plus potential health concerns if protective gear was not used.

The #883 uses just two basic acids, and it was common for new vehicles to have their black trim badly stained.

If the # 883 was applied to a warm surface, or allowed to dwell on a warm surface too long, the paint wrinkled, and some other problems.

There was also reports from the field, dealerships, regarding some aluminum and stainless trim being discolored as well.

As with the ValuGard system, most of the use was at port operations or new vehicle "get ready" centers, doing several hundred vehicles a day, this often lead to the problems coming to be known due to the way the employee's of such operations did not always follow directions, etc, creating some very costly repairs.

Then, when Ford wished to add it to their TSB's for dealership use, their World-wide Health and Safety group found some other issues and those needed to be addressed, which required formula changes, which the company would not do.

Initially this was not a concern, however, some reported problems made their way to Dearborn, which then resulted in the FK system being removed from Ford and Chrysler repair processes.

Soon, Mazda and Nissan followed suite.
 
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