Borax

S

scrubs147

I want my metal OPTIMIZED
I have been searching for a cheap method in getting a "spot-free" rinse when washing a vehicle. I came across ehow.com which states that by mixing a small amount of Borax into a hose attachment (type of mixing bottle) purchased at your local hardware store, you can get a spot free rinse.

It would certainly be cheaper than a water softener and the reacements to maintain a water softener unit. So, has anyone tried this and have any knowledge/experience with this or am I going to be the first? Guess I can always try it in my wife's car first and if things don't work out, spend a few weeks on the sofa.
 
I have never heard of anyone using that method for spot free rinse before. That does not mean it won't work. I have just never heard of it. Give it a try and let us know how it works. :bigups
 
scrubs147 said:
So, has anyone tried this and have any knowledge/experience with this or am I going to be the first? Guess I can always try it in my wife's car first and if things don't work out, spend a few weeks on the sofa.
Click to expand...

You think it's worth the price of a paint job if it doesn't go well :notme::eek:
There are other ways around water spots ;)
Let us know :rolleyes:
 
Its chemical analysis is anhydrous borax, 53.8 percent; boric acid, 37.2 percent; sodium oxide, 16.6 percent; water of crystallization, 46.2 percent; and chloride, 37 parts per million.

I am no chemist, but this doesn't sound like anything I will trying on my cars anytime soon.
 
The only thing I can see that may sound harmful in any of these ingredients would be the word "Sodium". However, Borax is safe for cleaning interior painted walls without any harm.

I will be researching this (via Internet) and perhaps I may call the company to see what their intake is on this is. With all the usages that this product implies to, it doesn't seem that it could be all that harmful for vehicles, in fact there are several websites that suggest using Borax as an ingredient for mixing your own car wash solutions.

I know many people do not like taking risks and rightfully so when it comes to expensive paint jobs, plus many manufacturers such as Meguiars, 3M and others are not going to share any other ideas other than what they sell for obvious reasons. Many folks are set in their old ways and believe that only brand name products are the only way to go. If I can avoid making a mistake by being fooled into thinking that a $400 water softener plus monthly filter replacements is the only cure-all for water spots than I am going to research rather than simply blow it off because it sounds scary.

$10 box of Borax (if it works) along with a $10 hose end sprayer from a hardware store which I can use on many vehicles appose to $400 one time fee
plus expensive filter replacements which only provides for a smaller percentage of uses... hmmm, I'm thinking it's time to do some more research before spending a lot of money which uses up my profits.
 
Borax has been around for years... many years and I really don't think your the first to think out side the box on this subject or to think of this as a short cut additive for water spotting... if it was a great method it would of been in the detailing arsenal long ago.

Here at DC, we share tips, tricks, methods and processes, there really are no top secrets out there, there are methods and process, some I like that others don't, that's what makes us a dysfunctional family, so please don't think we don't like this method you suggest.. it's that we are apprehensive and never heard of it before.

I'd be real careful using this... if there were to be any damage it may not show up right away.
 
scrubs147 said:
I know many people do not like taking risks and rightfully so when it comes to expensive paint jobs, plus many manufacturers such as Meguiars, 3M and others are not going to share any other ideas other than what they sell for obvious reasons. Many folks are set in their old ways and believe that only brand name products are the only way to go. If I can avoid making a mistake by being fooled into thinking that a $400 water softener plus monthly filter replacements is the only cure-all for water spots than I am going to research rather than simply blow it off because it sounds scary.

$10 box of Borax (if it works) along with a $10 hose end sprayer from a hardware store which I can use on many vehicles appose to $400 one time fee
plus expensive filter replacements which only provides for a smaller percentage of uses... hmmm, I'm thinking it's time to do some more research before spending a lot of money which uses up my profits.
Click to expand...

Personally I'd rather use the tried and true method. I use PB spray and gloss on a wet panel, then dry with waffle weave towel. Safe/easy and produces a gloss. Others use dg aquawax and waffle weave, safe/shiney. done.
 
I found this post on another website. I do feel that through successful reputitious advertising, many consumers are easily brainwashed into believing that there is only one path, and that path can only be achieved through brand named products.


The takeaway from all of this should be to consider alternatives to what we are being marketed and sold today. Thinking and using common-sense is a learned way of life. Don’t be stuck in ‘the system’. Discover what our ancestors used for frugal solutions to problems. Although many advancements clearly win out over past solutions, not all new products are any better as a solution than what our grandparents and great grandparents used. I believe that Borax is just one of many nuggets out there, waiting to be picked.

What inspired me to post on this topic was having used some ’20 Mule Team Borax’ yesterday while cleaning our patio furniture, and realizing its versatility and effectiveness. Although I have been using this product for some time now, each time I do, I am reminded of how simple solutions such as this can save time and money.

Update: I must say that using a borax solution for car wash cleaner is very effective. I have been using this solution as a car wash soap for some time now, and it definitely cleans better than other special purpose car wash soaps that I have used. I have not had any scratching of the paint whatsoever and it really cuts through the road grime, bug residue, and dirt. I’m still amazed at how much cleaning solution can be made from one box of borax, all at a fraction of the cost of other manufactured soaps.
 
That's great! Glad it's working for you. Borax is used as a water softener, so that would help with hard water.
One thing I'd be worried about is that it's a powder, and if some didn't fully dissolve, you might get a scratch. (Yet another reason to avoid powdered laundry detergent for washing cars!)
As to the "old vs. new" methods, remember that the materials used today aren't the same as back then (often aren't as "robust" either). One method of cleaning paint was with straight kerosene. It worked. It's frowned upon now, as it's not environmentally conscientious and it's a health risk.
But, it's hard to argue with results! If it works for you, then that's all that should matter to you! :bigups
 
About 5 years ago I experimented with Cascade spotless rinse.
Problem was it was impossible to regulate the hose end mixer that I used to apply a small enough amount.
It made the rinse water bead like crazy so I finished rinsing with a little plain water.
It does prevent water spots but was a hassle using it so I stopped using it.
That was 5 years ago and the paint has not dropped off yet. :D

As far as what ingredients are in it when did you see a list of the ingredients of a car soap.

You just assume it is OK because it is labeled as for automobiles.

I have used kerosene/paint thinner/acetone/gasoline/alcohol/prep-sol/gunk/goo-off and never damaged my clear coat so i don't think it is as delicate as some believe.

I found that adding a little DP rinse less wash to the soap solution not only helps with lubricity but it helps prevent spots.

While my water is hard I wash in the garage not out in the sun so I can dry it before it has time to dry and leave spots.
 
I'm a little confused.............

First you ask ahs anyone used it so you can gain from their experience...........
Then when you hear some negatives/concerns, you state you have used it numerous times.............

Why bother ?!?!?!?!?!

Were you just looking for validation or to toot your own horn?
 
Ronkh said:
I'm a little confused.............

First you ask ahs anyone used it so you can gain from their experience...........
Then when you hear some negatives/concerns, you state you have used it numerous times.............

Why bother ?!?!?!?!?!

Were you just looking for validation or to toot your own horn?
Click to expand...

You did not read the posts very carefully. I never said that I have tried this ever, I wrote that I found what someone else wrote on another website. Go back & re-read the posts so you're not shoving words down the wrong person's throat. Not only will that keep this post on track, but you will avoid being son confused, as you stated.

I am actually looking for negatives and positives regarding the use of Borax as a water softener. According to one article (pay attention - I am NOT stating that it was I that spoke in this article), if you use warm water heated with some sort of portable heating element sold online, then mix the Borax in a hose attachment sprayer then the Borax would properly disolve so there would be no scratches. Also, you would be rinsing with this mixture, not washing so, there wouldn't be any contact.

Why bother you ask... when I see replies where someone like you had not read through the posts carefully and somehow got so easily confused to the point of sending this post into the wrong direction that's exactly what comes to mind... what's the use?!?
 
scrubs147, No problem seeking answers outside the normal processes/products. Your post was a bit confusing, if not read closely. In the future you can help to avoid confusion by wrapping with quotes the portion of your post which is not your own words.

Back to the topic at hand, I am a long time (decades) user of borax, specifically the 20-Mule Team product for laundry. For laundry use, IMO it is an outstanding product. Never have I used it as a water softener for car wash. My knee-jerk reaction would be similar to Big Leegr's and that would be the concern that the powdered product might not completely dissolve and present the possibility for surface marring. I do agree that those using water softened by a water softener (fueled by salts) could face a similar potential for problems.

If your curiosity is piqued enough and/or think that the returns are worth it, why not conduct a small controlled experiment on a single panel. If it does cause marring (micro or other) it won't take much to correct.
 
scrubs147 said:
Why bother you ask... when I see replies where someone like you had not read through the posts carefully and somehow got so easily confused to the point of sending this post into the wrong direction that's exactly what comes to mind... what's the use?!?
Click to expand...

It helps if it was written clearly
 
scrubs147 said:
I found this post on another website. I do feel that through successful reputitious advertising, many consumers are easily brainwashed into believing that there is only one path, and that path can only be achieved through brand named products. So here is the post I found on another website:

"The takeaway from all of this should be to consider alternatives to what we are being marketed and sold today. Thinking and using common-sense is a learned way of life. Don’t be stuck in ‘the system’. Discover what our ancestors used for frugal solutions to problems. Although many advancements clearly win out over past solutions, not all new products are any better as a solution than what our grandparents and great grandparents used. I believe that Borax is just one of many nuggets out there, waiting to be picked.

What inspired me to post on this topic was having used some ’20 Mule Team Borax’ yesterday while cleaning our patio furniture, and realizing its versatility and effectiveness. Although I have been using this product for some time now, each time I do, I am reminded of how simple solutions such as this can save time and money.

Update: I must say that using a borax solution for car wash cleaner is very effective. I have been using this solution as a car wash soap for some time now, and it definitely cleans better than other special purpose car wash soaps that I have used. I have not had any scratching of the paint whatsoever and it really cuts through the road grime, bug residue, and dirt. I’m still amazed at how much cleaning solution can be made from one box of borax, all at a fraction of the cost of other manufactured soaps."
Click to expand...

I updated my post (the only way I know how that is) on this subject. You're all correct and I apologize, after going back and re-reading it, this statement was confusing. Can you imaging that I actually wrote (and still do write every now and again) articles for magazines on other subjects? Yes very sloppy writing.

Now, back to the subject... today I will be mixing the Borax into my on-board 35 gallon water tank according to the direction I found online. I will be using a 'bucket heater' purchased at a hardware store to help dilute the Borax completely so there is no unrefined mixture left. that way there will be no risk of scratching the paint. My only concern at this point will be any film left over after washing/rinsing the vehicle. I will also be mixing my washing solution with a vegetable based liquid soap such as 'Castile' to the wash only bucket. According to this article found at ehow.com, the Castile soap is supposed to leave a very shiny like finish.

Now keep in mind that I will be practicing this on my own vehicle first, and then if all goes well I will be detailing my neighbor's vehicle second. Both cars will be washed & waxed out in the Florida sun, however the weather here lately is not all that hot these last couple of weeks, and I will be taking before and after picture of both vehicle. I also just purchased the Metro Vac N' Blow Portable Vacuum which I really like. Both vehicles look pretty well lived in - kind of like the carpenter's who has a house which is falling down because he doesn't have the time to fix it due to his customer schedule.

The whole point of this, is that the water softener filters and cartridges/refills are so darn expensive... I just can't seem to justify the cost of these units, nor do I understand why they are so pricey. I know there is a 'Mr. Clean' unit on the market but after searching all the reviews this didn't seem to offer any consistency as far as pressure along with being totally spot-free. I am just looking for a way to stay away from unnecessary inventory while still creating top quality workmanship. Stay tuned...
 
For future reference, there is an icon in the tool bar just above your text box. As you roll your cursor over it it will say
Wrap
tags around selected text
Click to expand...
and will appear thusly when you highlight the text area and then select the icon. Really sets the text apart and makes things so much clearer.

Good luck on your test and be sure and report back your findings.
Click to expand...
 
IMHO
I'd still try it on an old spare part (get at junk yard). (bonus, you get to perfect your other techniques on this)

If IRCC (and i may be wrong) castile soap contians oils. So waxing may be worthless.

Metro Vac = GREAT CHOICE
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top