Bonding Agents

rzatch

rzatch

New member
I see a lot of products now called bonding agents or pre-wax cleaners and so on. When and how often are they to be used? Lastly has anyone ever done a comparison to see if there is really that much of a difference in longevity after using them for the amount of effort involved?
 
It's an interesting question and thus the reason I ordered some Duragloss Polish Bonding Agent. It was due to arrive yesterday however the package became a fatality and I was informed it was returned to the source today.

"Duragloss Polish Bonding Agent is similar to an epoxy (A&B) and bonds chemically when it comes into contact with durable polishes. Duragloss PBA will double the durability and protection of polishes when applied prior to polishing.

This is a one of a kind product! Duragloss Polish Bonding Agent serves as “glue” between the paint and a polymer paint sealant in the sense that it encourages a better bond and longer life of the sealant. You can get double the protection and double the length of protection by simply adding one coat of PBA before your last step product."
 
That sounds interesting. Kind of like a primer

Whenever I read about bonding agents like this it makes me wonder if durability becomes dependent on the bonding agent
 
The other alternative could be Polycharger. You do not have to do two steps. I would think it is more effective in increasing durability.
 
Poly Charger may I've never used it but it is way more expensive. One kit that increases 25 oz of wax is 39.99 compared to say DG 601 at 8.99.
 
BobbyG said:
You can get double the protection and double the length of protection by simply adding one coat of PBA before your last step product."
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In theory couldn't you also get double the protection and double the durability by adding a 2nd coat of sealant? If something is going to strip the sealant, then it's going to strip the sealant, regardless of what it is bonded to. So, if the PBA has better bonding and durability, why not just use that as a LSP? Just playing devil's advocate.

It is an interesting question and I would love to see a side by side comparison on a hood and a door (to test against winter conditions). One test with just the elements, and one with a wash of a concentration that is just strong enough to compromise the sealant. (Like CGCW) I'm thinking 3 sections. One coat sealant, two coats sealant, & PBA with one coat sealant. If the PBA section cannot hold up better than 2 coats I see no point. Anyone looking for durability as the primary factor should be looking at a coating rather than a sealant.

I will be very interested in reading your results, Bobby. :inspector:
 
dwgcmc said:
In theory couldn't you also get double the protection and double the durability by adding a 2nd coat of sealant? If something is going to strip the sealant, then it's going to strip the sealant, regardless of what it is bonded to. So, if the PBA has better bonding and durability, why not just use that as a LSP? Just playing devil's advocate.

It is an interesting question and I would love to see a side by side comparison on a hood and a door (to test against winter conditions). One test with just the elements, and one with a wash of a concentration that is just strong enough to compromise the sealant. (Like CGCW) I'm thinking 3 sections. One coat sealant, two coats sealant, & PBA with one coat sealant. If the PBA section cannot hold up better than 2 coats I see no point. Anyone looking for durability as the primary factor should be looking at a coating rather than a sealant.

I will be very interested in reading your results, Bobby. :inspector:
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I have a sample of DG 501/601 coming unfortunatly I think it may be already mixed. If not then I will do a comparison on the hood of my wifes car.

Also playing devils advocate. I my mind two coats or however many coats if it don't stick then it's not going to last. It needs a fondation.Kind of the weakest link type of thing.

It would be interesting to know if most AIO have some type of bonding agent in them or if the cleaning ability of them is enough. If so, then there is no reason to use a bonding agent after a polish. Unless of course the polish has alot of oils in it that will need to be cleaned off. If this is the case though once those are cleaned off will you still need a bonding agent?? Or will the sealant bond just as well without it??
 
rzatch said:
two coats or however many coats if it don't stick then it's not going to last.
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Agreed. But we already talk about durability in months. That wouldn't be possible if it weren't bonding. I understand the need to have a clean surface to bond to, but I'm wondering if a bonding agent will be more effective than using IPA or simply doing a wash to strip oils.

Has anyone done an actual side by side comparison with a sealant both with and without an IPA wipe before sealing that gives clear results about the difference in durability?
 
Well I'm not going to ba able to do the side by side my samples came tonight and the 601 is already mixed in with the 501 & 105. There must be something to it or Dura Gloss wouldn't make the claim of "You can get double the protection and double the length of protection by simply adding one coat of PBA before your last step product." Would they?????
 
rzatch said:
I see a lot of products now called bonding agents or pre-wax cleaners and so on. When and how often are they to be used? Lastly has anyone ever done a comparison to see if there is really that much of a difference in longevity after using them for the amount of effort involved?
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There is a significant difference in the chemistry and role of a bonding agent vs. a pre-wax cleaner.

The best analogy I can think of is think like you painting a wall on your house.

The pre-wax cleaner is like a prep-wash you do to make sure that all of the grease, grime, and contamination is removed so whatever you apply next is going to stick well.

A bonding agent is kind of like primer. You apply this to the clean wall to make sure that the paint is going to stick better. Now paint will stick just fine to a dry and clean wall, but it will stick better to primer.

Now it does get a little confusing because some bonding agents recommend that they are put down first, and the sealant applied over them while some must be mixed with sealant prior to application.

I believe Duragloss is made specifically for the polymers in Duragloss and works to increase the performance of their products, where as Polycharger is designed to work with all types of sealants. The extra engineering and flexibility of Polycharger is reflected in the price increase.

There have been numerous reviews on Polycharger increasing the performance of various sealants.
 
rzatch said:
There must be something to it or Dura Gloss wouldn't make the claim of "You can get double the protection and double the length of protection by simply adding one coat of PBA before your last step product." Would they?????
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There must be something to Nu Finish's durability too, or they wouldn't make the claim of "Once a year car polish". :rofl
 
I just ordered 601 and 111 last night so I will be able to do a side by side in the coming week or so. So I will cut it up into three sections.

1 111 right over current wax (max wax)
2 601/111 over whats already there
3 601/111 over a freshly polished section
 
rzatch said:
I just ordered 601 and 111 last night so I will be able to do a side by side in the coming week or so. So I will cut it up into three sections.

1 111 right over current wax (max wax)
2 601/111 over whats already there
3 601/111 over a freshly polished section
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excellent!
 
Also got some 105 today along with some perl. AG was out of the perl but got more in. Free shipping is killing me.
 
mwtaco said:
if you use 601, do you have to strip the paint of its existing sealant/wax, or will 601 take care of that?
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DG 601 is not an abrasive or heavy chemical cleaner. Personally I would strip the surface of any existing product before laying down a fresh coat of sealant or wax. I would not waste time applying DG 111 over wax. For best performance of any product you should apply to clean, bare paint.

As Todd stated, DG 601 was developed for Duragloss products only. Other than Polycharger the only other bonding agent I'm aware of is Chemical Guys Virtua Bond.
 
rwright said:
DG 601 is not an abrasive or heavy chemical cleaner. Personally I would strip the surface of any existing product before laying down a fresh coat of sealant or wax. I would not waste time applying DG 111 over wax. For best performance of any product you should apply to clean, bare paint.

As Todd stated, DG 601 was developed for Duragloss products only. Other than Polycharger the only other bonding agent I'm aware of is Chemical Guys Virtua Bond.
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thx...i'll follow your advice. but it will be interesting to see how rzatch's experiment turns out.
 
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