Best Setup for Red Cars?

Tyler Hoffarth

Tyler Hoffarth

Professional Detailer
Hey everyone! First and foremost, I will introduce myself to these forums. My name is Tyler Hoffarth, living in Alberta, Canada.


 


I recently bought a 2004 BMW 330CI ZHP, in Imola Red. My girlfriend owns a 1997 BMW 318IS, in Hellrot Red. We are currently looking to build a good detailing kit that would work really well on red vehicles, respectively. I am looking for a complete system... orbital, wax, sealant, polisher(s), swirl removers, pads, towels, etc.


 


I was over on the AutoGeek forum, and this is the list that I had created:


 


<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:13px;">-- Griots 6" HD Polisher Kit:
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:13px;">- WG Total Swirl Remover 3.0
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:13px;">- WG Finishing Glaze 3.0
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:13px;">- Various pads
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:13px;">- Griot’s Garage Random Orbital Wolfgang Duo

<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:13px;">-- WG Deep Gloss Paint Sealant
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:13px;">-- Menzerna FG400
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:13px;">-- Menzerna SF-4000
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:13px;">-- HydroTech Cyan/Orange Pads
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:13px;">-- WF Polishing Pad Combo (for hand use)
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:13px;">-- WG Fuzion Mini Estate Kit
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:13px;">- WG Auto Bathe
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:13px;">- WG Paint Polish Enhancer
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:13px;">- WG Fuzion 3oz wax
Wolfgang Fuzion Estate Wax Mini Connoisseur's Kit, Wolfgang Mini Wax Kit, Fuzion Wax Sample Kit


 


 


I'm not sure this kit is complete, nor if it is a good setup for red cars. I am NOT experienced with using a orbital/polisher, so it will also be a learning experience. Is this a good list, or what would you use? I don't want to spend boatloads of money, but I do want to do a great job and have as amazing results as I can for a great deep, wet gloss look, free of swirl marks when I am done.


 


Thanks everyone!


 


Tyler
 
You don't need all of that stuff unless the paint has swirls or other imperfections. If the paint is in good shape, I'd just do a mild polish and then apply a sealant. 
 
The paint on both of our cars does have swirls... in direct light or sunlight they are quite visible, and my paint specifically needs some attention. 


 


What would be a good kit to get to remove swirls? They aren't extremely deep, but some must be around the 1500grit area. As for a polish, sealant then wax, are there any specific or preferred ones for red vehicles? Thanks a lot!
 
Griots has a one-step sealant (sealant with polish in it) that I really enjoy using. Look over each panel, and if you can get the worst swirls out with the mild polish (in this case griots #3) then you'll be fine to use the one-step sealant for the entire car.
 
http://www.griotsgarage.com/product/griots+garage+random+orbital.do?sortby=ourPicks


6" Random Orbital


6" Orange Foam Polish Pads (Get three, one for each polish)


6" Red Wax Pad (used for applying sealant as well) 


 


http://www.griotsgarage.com/product/machine+polish+collection.do?sortby=ourPicks


 


Get polishes 1-3 (4 isn't really necessary unless you're OCD then go for it lol)


 


http://www.griotsgarage.com/product/paint+sealant+16+ounces.do?sortby=ourPicks


Sealant


 


http://www.griotsgarage.com/product/one-step+sealant+16+ounces.do?sortby=ourPicks


One-step sealant (if you want to try that too)


 


That should get you started. Watch their videos and read around on here to find the best method that works for you. 
 
Auto Obsessed is good to deal with and they're close to you.


My M Coupe is Imola too and it's a bit of a garage queen.  Only driven in the summer but it always looks great.


 


Once you have the swirls gone, you want to have a serious look at Menzerna Powerlock.  Google it and check it out.  Super long lasting and really shiny and really hard to remove and that's good.


If you have time, you'll want to put a carnauba topper on top of your sealant.  Not critical at all but it imparts a different look, a deeper more depth shine and I will often cycle through three beauty waxes: Pinnacle Souveran, DodoJuice Supernatural, and the sleeper wax of the world, Victoria Concours (the red stuff).


 


Most all the above stuff, maybe all of it, is available at Auto Obsessed too.  They're closed for the holidays until Jan 2 but that just gives you time to continue your research.  Maybe post a pic or two when you're done.


 


edit:  check out the buff & Shine MF pads at A O.  The B&F pads seem to hold up better/longer than a few other brands and don't delaminate like others can.
 
The Wolfgang stuff may not get the most love here, but I really like it. The WG polish trio is top notch (Uber Compound, TSR, and Finishing Glaze) and made by Menz. This stuff works especially well for me on BMW paint. The TSR on an orange LC CCS/flat pad may be all you need to remove your swirls.

I like Fuzion a lot as well. If you use it on top of a polymer sealant or a WOWA sealant, like WG Deep Gloss Liquid Seal, it's extremely glossy. Ease of use is amazing and the stuff spreads far.
 
Welcome to Autopia!!   Don't bother with a kit -- you will end up with things you don't need and not enough things you do need.   Build your own kit and pick and choose what you really need.


 


Griots DA is an excellent choice--add a 5" backing plate so you can use 5.5" FLAT pads.  You'll save money on pads and find they are more effective than 6.5" pads with dimples, grooves etc.  You might also consider a 3.5" backing plate and 4" pads to use for the small tight spaces.


 


Get enough pads--at least 4 for your compounding or heavy correction step, 4 for your polishing step and a couple for applying LSPs


 


Take a look at Buff & Shine pads if you can get them in Canada--the recessed velcro adds an additional margin of safety polishing around protruding objects and the B&S pads are very durable.  A good start would be 4 orange, 4 green and 2 red.


 


Strongly consider HD polishes and compounds--they are extremely beginner friendly and effective  http://www.hdcarcare.com/Polishes-Compounds/ with long working times, little to no dust and don't leave heavy oils behind.  I believe they have a Canadian distributer now.    Depending on the condition of your paint you may be able to just use HD Adapt (rather than a compound and polish) or if the paint is in better condition just HD Speed ( an all in one).    HD Speed is a great product to use for your first attempt at machine polishing since it is mild and won't get you into too much trouble--then step up to more abrasive products later.


 


Another good option for polishes would be the Optimum line--also easy to work with and beginner friendly.


 


Consider HD POXY as your LSP --the combo of sealant and wax looks fantastic on Red.  Then HD Express to maintain.


 


Get allot of quality MicroFiber towels--you'll need them.


 


I followed these guidelines when I started machine polishing a little over 2 years ago and have not had the problems and failures you read about many beginners having in their first polishing attempts.


 


Good luck!!!
 
Firstly, thank you all for the suggestions and tips so far. I will try to respond to everyone, as you all have great ideas!


 
JohnZ3MC said:
Auto Obsessed is good to deal with and they're close to you.


My M Coupe is Imola too and it's a bit of a garage queen.  Only driven in the summer but it always looks great.


 


Once you have the swirls gone, you want to have a serious look at Menzerna Powerlock.  Google it and check it out.  Super long lasting and really shiny and really hard to remove and that's good.


If you have time, you'll want to put a carnauba topper on top of your sealant.  Not critical at all but it imparts a different look, a deeper more depth shine and I will often cycle through three beauty waxes: Pinnacle Souveran, DodoJuice Supernatural, and the sleeper wax of the world, Victoria Concours (the red stuff).


 


Most all the above stuff, maybe all of it, is available at Auto Obsessed too.  They're closed for the holidays until Jan 2 but that just gives you time to continue your research.  Maybe post a pic or two when you're done.


 


edit:  check out the buff & Shine MF pads at A O.  The B&F pads seem to hold up better/longer than a few other brands and don't delaminate like others can.
Click to expand...


 


I took a look at their site last night and they seem to have a lot of the products that I am already interested in, which is great. Also going to be taking a look into that Powerlock. I realize that what you do before LSP is what makes the paint really shine and what not, but I do want a good quality wax, and I have heard great things about both the Pinnacle and the DodoJuice that you mention, though I haven't heard of the Victoria... which one of these do you find best for Imola? Initially I was debating between the Pinnacle and the Fuzion as I had heard both are fantastic on red, but that Fuzion was designed specifically with red in mind.


 


I'm not back in town until the 2nd, and the car is in storage until Spring (summer only car), so I will definitely have a bit of time to do some research and find what will be best
Swanicyouth said:
The Wolfgang stuff may not get the most love here, but I really like it. The WG polish trio is top notch (Uber Compound, TSR, and Finishing Glaze) and made by Menz. This stuff works especially well for me on BMW paint. The TSR on an orange LC CCS/flat pad may be all you need to remove your swirls.


I like Fuzion a lot as well. If you use it on top of a polymer sealant or a WOWA sealant, like WG Deep Gloss Liquid Seal, it's extremely glossy. Ease of use is amazing and the stuff spreads far.
Click to expand...


 


I think every forum seems to have some favourites / in-house, preferred brands of course. That really shows over at AutoGeek where their in-house brands are acclaimed to be of the best quality. It was a member there that referred me here as he said the favouritism over there could lead me astray from other possibly great products. As for the Fuzion, if I were to get it,  I would most likely be using the WG Deep Gloss Sealant as you mentioned


 
pwaug said:
Welcome to Autopia!!   Don't bother with a kit -- you will end up with things you don't need and not enough things you do need.   Build your own kit and pick and choose what you really need.


 


Griots DA is an excellent choice--add a 5" backing plate so you can use 5.5" FLAT pads.  You'll save money on pads and find they are more effective than 6.5" pads with dimples, grooves etc.  You might also consider a 3.5" backing plate and 4" pads to use for the small tight spaces.


 


Get enough pads--at least 4 for your compounding or heavy correction step, 4 for your polishing step and a couple for applying LSPs


 


Take a look at Buff & Shine pads if you can get them in Canada--the recessed velcro adds an additional margin of safety polishing around protruding objects and the B&S pads are very durable.  A good start would be 4 orange, 4 green and 2 red.


 


Strongly consider HD polishes and compounds--they are extremely beginner friendly and effective  http://www.hdcarcare.com/Polishes-Compounds/ with long working times, little to no dust and don't leave heavy oils behind.  I believe they have a Canadian distributer now.    Depending on the condition of your paint you may be able to just use HD Adapt (rather than a compound and polish) or if the paint is in better condition just HD Speed ( an all in one).    HD Speed is a great product to use for your first attempt at machine polishing since it is mild and won't get you into too much trouble--then step up to more abrasive products later.


 


Another good option for polishes would be the Optimum line--also easy to work with and beginner friendly.


 


Consider HD POXY as your LSP --the combo of sealant and wax looks fantastic on Red.  Then HD Express to maintain.


 


Get allot of quality MicroFiber towels--you'll need them.


 


I followed these guidelines when I started machine polishing a little over 2 years ago and have not had the problems and failures you read about many beginners having in their first polishing attempts.


 


Good luck!!!
Click to expand...


 


Thanks for the suggestion! I have considered just piecing together a kit - but for shipping costs' sake, figured kits might be easier. Now that I know about AO in Edmonton, I'll at least have a local supplier.


 


The Griots DA I believe is definitely the one I will be looking into. Also now, I will be sure to get the 5" backing plate and pads... I never realized there were benefits to having smaller pads, thanks for that!


 


When you recommend HD products - Is that simply because they are in-house products or they really are that good? I apologize in advance if that comes off as rude at all, but I've been told many times to never stick to just one brand as every brand makes some fantastic products, some good products, and some so-so. I took a look at their site, and I gotta admit that their prices are much more tempting than the products I have been previously looking at, but I couldn't find much for detail on their compound/polish on what grit it will be good for removing. Regardless, I am definitely taking a look into all of their products and figuring out which ones will be best for what I am wanting.


 


 


 


 


Thanks again everyone for your responses so far, they are all greatly appreciated. As for what I will choose, I am still not sure. I think that I will be going to my local AO shop now and checking out what they have and possibly getting some ideas from them as well. I think I am going to be applying the wax by hand, as pads would most likely just absorb more than necessary... unless there are major benefits to applying the LSP with a DA? One of the things that I really have to work on with my car is the paint repairs - someone had 'touched-up' dozens upon dozens of road-rash repairs on the hood/front bumper, but never did them properly (They just put a dap of red paint on and left it). So now I will have to wet-sand it down, and re-do all of them! Any suggestions here as well?
 
Tyler--I only recommend the HD products because I have used them with great success even as a beginner and as I mentioned another good alternative are Optimum products for ease of use.    You can look in this section of the forums for information and reviews on HD products  http://www.autopia.org/forum/forum/56-3d-high-definition-car-care/   You may find some additional reviews in the Products section under reviews.


 


While the more experienced members and pros will use many different products, there is something to be said for keeping it simple, especially in the beginning, rather than jumping around product lines or say between DAT and SMAT polishes.


 


If you click on the picture of the product at the HD site link I sent you there is a detailed description of each product, but don't judge a product just on the grit number it can remove--consider workability, if it leaves behind fillers or oils etc.  And HD products are also pad dependent--while HD Polish is a finishing polish, it can remove light swirling on hard paint with say an orange light cutting pad and still finish very well.


 


The nice thing about Autopia.ORG is that it is an open site--even though it is owned by 3D/HD, you will notice that there are a number of other sponsors that have competing products to the HD line.   Also, you can discuss any product not just "house brands" from a positive or negative aspect (in a professional manner) without fear of being banned or having your post deleted.  So you'll get honest opinions --negative or positive--about all products.


 


If you like packages, take a look at another of our sponsors Detailers Domian (don't know if he ships to Canada) as he has Griot's kits with a 5" backing plate and 5.5" Uber pads (same as B&S), but if you can find everything you want in Canada it seems you'll be better off.


 


As far as the wet sanding all I can say is "be careful!!!!"
 
TylerHoffarth said:
 One of the things that I really have to work on with my car is the paint repairs - someone had 'touched-up' dozens upon dozens of road-rash repairs on the hood/front bumper, but never did them properly (They just put a dap of red paint on and left it). So now I will have to wet-sand it down, and re-do all of them! Any suggestions here as well?
Click to expand...


Look for a product called Langka .. its designed to remove the excess blobs of touchup paint. I have it and used it .. sometimes it will remove all the touchup if it wasnt applied over a good clean surface but thats here nore there .. if it does then it gives you a clean slate to do it right.
 
Tyler, your question about Souveran, Supernatural, and Victoria Concours looking good on red?  They all do and that's why I cycle through them, I can't make up my mind which looks better.  I don't care about longevity, just looks.


 


.  All three are considered 'beauty' waxes., meaning they provide a spectacular look for a short while, no staying power at all.  I find Souveran lasts the shortest, maybe 3 - 4 weeks with the summer heat.  The Victoria Concours (red stuff) really lasts a long time,  maybe a couple of months.  I've never left it on long enough to really test its longevity - I experiment too much. 


All three are amazing on Imola though.


 


When I first applied the Victoria Concours, it was a sunny day.  I applied it by hand (no harmful agents in it so it's safe for hand application if you want) and buffed it off with a plush microfiber.  I thought it looked amazing, then when I backed the car out into the sun, the wife hung over the sun deck and commented oh how shiny the coupe looked.  She'd never done that before so I took that as a sign that my eyes were telling me how good it really looked.


 


Maybe start with a 3 oz. sampler  of the Victoria Concours.  It'll be a reasonable way to test it and if you ever get the idea that you want to move on and remove it from your supplies, drop me  a PM and I'll buy it from you.  I'm running low and need more anyway.
 
TylerHoffarth- Welcome to Autopia!


 


You've already received good advice, not all that much for me to add.


 


FWIW, I actually *resisted* trying the HD polishes (had stuff that worked fine, didn't want to just get on a bandwagon, etcl) but when I finally *did* try them I was very favorably impressed.  I really do think they're the way you oughta go (and the GG polisher is very good too).


 


I *STRONGLY* urge you to *NOT* wetsand.  While some of us do it, it's not something you want to "learn while doing" where a nice vehicle is concerned.  We get that here all the time- "I did some very gentle wetsanding on my car and now I need help..." and the answer is always the same- "too bad, that'll have to be repainted".  I'm dead-serious here, just don't do it.  The Langka or lacqer thinner will remove touchups (I prefer the langka) safely and if you want to try redoing them you can use it to level the paint you apply.  You might look into the Dr ColorChips line, but use it like regular touchup paint as opposed to their recommended "smear it around" method.


 


Did I remember to suggest that you *NOT* wetsand?!?  Just trying to impress upon you how seriously I take that subject.


 


Regarding "beauty waxes", I do use such stuff on one of my cars, but for anything that gets driven in real-world conditions I'd want something that a) lasts longer, and protects better (against etching from bugs and birds, for instance).  Maybe the PowerLock, though I've never tried it.  I myself generally end up using FK1000P, which I really, *really* like even though it's in the "nothing fancy, just a synthetic paste wax" category.  It lasts for many months, protects great, and...well, eh, OK looks are in the eye of the beholder, but 95% of that is a matter of the polishing anyhow.  One great thing about the FK1000P is how it sheds dirt so well, making it *much* easier to wash without inducing new marring (all those swirls/etc. generally come from the wash).


 


And that's a whole 'nother subject upon which I could (should?) write a book- how to wash without marring the paint.  IMO if you're polishing every year to maintain near-perfection, then something is very wrong.
 
Thanks again all for the responses.


 


I have heard a lot of great things about the Langka products - I already have their 'blob remover' in my cart, in hopes that it will help with the chip repairs.


 


As for polishes, sealants, and waxes, I am looking into the HD line, as well as planning on going to my local Auto Obsessed shop to see what products they all have to offer, as well as their opinions on things. I'm not overly picky about having to rewax/polish a couple of times a year, as I only enjoy working on my car and making it look as good as it can be. 


 


JohnZ3MC - I am looking into the Victoria wax you talk about. I'm sure I too will be experimenting with many different types over time. Do you generally apply your waxes by hand? Also, is Powerlock your preferred final polish? If not, what is?


 


Accumulator - Notes taken regarding wetsanding. My initial intentions were to test on my DD (a 2001 Jetta TDI that's body is far past redemption), but after hearing more about the products available to help remove these failed repairs, I am looking into them; I thank-you for your suggestion regarding wetsanding. I was fairly nervous about the idea, anyways! I ended up just going to PaintScratch.com and ordering some paint pens, along with primer pens and clearcoat pens. Also got their rubbing compound - Do you think that would substitute for Langkas blob remover? As for waxing and polishing, I think it is because I am fairly new to all these products that I'm not sure if there are specifics that look better on red or not. I'm not overly picky about having to redo some things a couple times a year, though knowing I would only have to do it once or twice a year would definitely be beneficial. I think the Menzerna Powerlock would provide that, though I am not 100% sure.


 


As for polishing every year being something wrong, what exactly are you meaning by this? - That polishing should happen MORE than once per year, or less?


 


 


 


Thanks again to everyone! Great honest community here
 
To Add:


 


Firstly, I just want to add that although I am new to some of these higher-end products, I am not entirely new to detailing. I have been a weekend detailer for a couple of years, but have done all of my work only by hand and only using OTS products. I have joined this community as a way to expand my knowledge of both detailing methods and products. I greatly appreciate all of the opinions shared here so far, and I hope to begin contributing as soon as I feel my knowledge based on my (somewhat insignificant) experience is of use.


 


Thanks again to all, and I hope the conversation here continues!
 
I've applied wax by hand a couple of times but you have to be careful when doing so.  Not all waxes are equal and many have chemicals you don't want to ingest so you have to do a bit of research.  Also, hand applications means you use more product - can't help it.   Usually I use a foam applicator pad and live by the maxim 'a thin coat is best'.


 


As for sealants, I've used many - Klasse KSG, OptiSeal, Ultima Paint Guard Plus and liked them all but like waxes, not all sealants are the same either.  Lately I've been reading about Powerlock how it is virtually indestructable and very difficult to remove and has a high shine factor.    I have a 16 oz. bottle enroute from Auto Obsessed as we speak. Menzerna has been around forever and has a solid reputation for all its products and I'm hoping Powerlock is in keeping with the Menzerna philosophy of quality.   If it turns out to be a dud, I'll let you know.  A couple of layers should tell me volumes about it's look, and time will tell me the rest.  More googling.  Heck, I might even try FK1000P on the DD.




JohnZ3MC - I am looking into the Victoria wax you talk about. I'm sure I too will be experimenting with many different types over time. Do you generally apply your waxes by hand? Also, is Powerlock your preferred final polish? If not, what is?
 
Yeah I would love to hear your opinion on the Powerlock product. I won't be doing a full detail until Spring, so hearing about it from someone who owns a car in similar color would be perfect. I have read lots of great things about it over on AutoGeek, but generally the reviews have been used on black cars. Regardless, a couple of Google searches make it sounds quite promising.


 


As for applying wax, that's where I'm not sure on the route. I enjoy applying by hand, but I can see that, with the use of the right pad, a DA can be very good to use as well. Just one more decision I am going to have to make, I guess
 
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