Best products for swirl mark removal by hand?

M

marlinspike

New member
I have never had to do whole car paint correction before, as I have always owned a car from new and just taken good care of it/addressed things as needed. My girlfriend bought a car and while the paint is still good it is swirled all over. Is there an effective way to fix this by hand?

Right now I use 3M mostly for scratch removal, but while I can get out a deep scratch, I can't get rid of swirls.
 
Just my .02

yeah it's possible. WAY too much work. You'd need arms like Arnold (insert german accent)

There are some good d/a package deals from autopia, or use a glaze such as pb black hole or white diamond and seal/wax over it
 
Came here to say what Ron did, I tried it in 2008 and it doesn't work unless you are a Olympian. Your arm will tire long before the polish even gets broken down forget about cleared.

Ronkh said:
Just my .02

yeah it's possible. WAY too much work. You'd need arms like Arnold (insert german accent)

There are some good d/a package deals from autopia, or use a glaze such as pb black hole or white diamond and seal/wax over it
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Hmmm, ok, maybe I'll pay a guy to do it once and then I can just handle the upkeep. That said, what would you recommend if someone were willing to be immensely fatigued (or maybe just needed to do one panel and not a whole car)?
 
marlinspike said:
Hmmm, ok, maybe I'll pay a guy to do it once and then I can just handle the upkeep. That said, what would you recommend if someone were willing to be immensely fatigued (or maybe just needed to do one panel and not a whole car)?
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Therapy :lmfao

Seriously, a glaze and seal/wax over

Repeat as you see the swirls return
 
marlinspike said:
Hmmm, ok, maybe I'll pay a guy to do it once and then I can just handle the upkeep. That said, what would you recommend if someone were willing to be immensely fatigued (or maybe just needed to do one panel and not a whole car)?
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Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover works great by hand. It's not too aggressive, so it doesn't leave behind micromarring. Just remember to clay first if needed, and be prepared for multiple applications while working in a small area (1' x 1'). Use a thick applicator so you can apply pressure with your entire hand so you don't leave fingermarks. Try a test spot first, then wipe off the residue and inspect your results. Repeat the test spot process 4, 5, maybe even 6 times until all the swirl marks are removed. Then call 1-877-855-3125 when you're ready to buy a polisher :)
 
Someone help me with the numbers here... But to break down a polish with a DA usually takes anywhere from what maybe 4-6 section passes in a 2x2 section? consider about 1-2 minutes to complete, add in the opm (oscillations/minute) of your average DA, convert one oscillation to one circle motion with your hand. How long would it take to add up to the same number, and how numb would your arm be?

You can correct minor blemishes by hand but whole panel swirl removal? Like others said, don't bother unless you're looking for a workout.
 
Scratch X does work well. I am the same camp as others. For a whole car learn to use a DA or have someone polish for you. Then focus on proper wash techniques. You may find a detailer that will only do the polish process for you and leave the rest up to you to save a few bucks if that is a concern. What they can do to a cars finish in as little as a couple/few hours is amazing. All that is needed for a DD IMO.
 
MarlinSpike- Welcome to Autopia!

Realistically, it just won't happen by hand. Just doing fingernail scratches behind door handles can literally take a full afternoon of very tough work.

But OK, effective but not efficient: Products with nondiminishing abrasives such as Meguiar's M105, M101, or Ultimate Compound. Follow with a milder polish, also with nondiminishing abrasives such as M205, Ultimate Polish, or the superior (IMO) HD Polish.

Buy a polisher/pads/etc. and plan on a new hobby, or just pay a (GOOD, and they're rare) Pro to do the correction and then work on wash technique so it can stay that way.
 
I agree with what has been said already. It will at least look better if you do it by hand than not doing anything.

Here's a good thread that you has some good info.

Man versus Machine - Auto Geek Online Auto Detailing Forum

If you do decide to do it by hand then I would pick up a set of these. I use these in places a machine can't get to.

EZ Grip Hydro-Tech Hand Applicators

If you are looking for products, you can pick up Meguiar's ultimate compound, ultimate polish and ultimate wax at your local autoparts store.
 
Thanks for all the info guys. My main reason not to want to buy a polisher is not to risk doing something harmful to the finish while I'm learning how to use it. I think for this car I'll pay someone to get it good and then I'll just keep it nice as I have all of my cars (funny how it seems like you can never find a used car in quite as nice condition as it would be if you owned it the whole time).

What about if I change my question to be more localized, like after wet sanding out a small scratch? The 3M Rubbing Compound gets out the sanding marks, but then the 3M swirl mark remover seems to do very little (or perhaps it leaves behind it's own fine scratches), and the 3M Hand Glaze does nothing at all as far as I can tell (I now use P21S Paintwork Cleanser where I would have used the Hand Glaze before, i.e. just to get out contaminants). I try to avoid Meguiar's ever since I watched their wheel cleaner strip the paint off my wheels and bleach the driveway below the wheel. Maybe all the other products are good, but just out of spite I don't like to buy their products after that (even though I'll admit a good body shop where I used to live told me they tested a bunch of different products and the Meguiar's Professional line was as good or better than anything else).

EDIT: I've been reading some of the links. I'm starting to think my real problem with the products I already use isn't the product, but that I use a towel to apply it. Time to research pads...
 
marlinspike said:
Thanks for all the info guys. My main reason not to want to buy a polisher is not to risk doing something harmful to the finish while I'm learning how to use it. I think for this car I'll pay someone to get it good and then I'll just keep it nice as I have all of my cars (funny how it seems like you can never find a used car in quite as nice condition as it would be if you owned it the whole time).

What about if I change my question to be more localized, like after wet sanding out a small scratch? The 3M Rubbing Compound gets out the sanding marks, but then the 3M swirl mark remover seems to do very little (or perhaps it leaves behind it's own fine scratches), and the 3M Hand Glaze does nothing at all as far as I can tell (I now use P21S Paintwork Cleanser where I would have used the Hand Glaze before, i.e. just to get out contaminants). I try to avoid Meguiar's ever since I watched their wheel cleaner strip the paint off my wheels and bleach the driveway below the wheel. Maybe all the other products are good, but just out of spite I don't like to buy their products after that (even though I'll admit a good body shop where I used to live told me they tested a bunch of different products and the Meguiar's Professional line was as good or better than anything else).

EDIT: I've been reading some of the links. I'm starting to think my real problem with the products I already use isn't the product, but that I use a towel to apply it. Time to research pads...
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Relax with the polisher if you get a good D/A

If I can, you can
 
Ronkh said:
Relax with the polisher if you get a good D/A

If I can, you can
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No comment. ;)

Seriously though, listen to Ron. Approach this with a be smart, can do and patient attitude. You'll be amazed at your results. There's a fair number of quality D/A's out there that won't break the bank and that will make this all but goof proof. Buy decent products, plenty of insightful recommendations on this forum and the reality is that you'll likey be money ahead buying the equipment instead of paying someone to do a full 3 step to your vehicle twice and you'll still have something to show for the money spent.

I've spent several afternoons with people who wanted their cars to pop all the time (paying the pros can be expensive) but didn't have the confidence to go after it themselves. These people were car people that I thought could catch on and do this themselves. For me there was nothing to lose as I don't do it for a living, I wasn't really looking for a repeat customer and after all they were friends. A little looking over their shoulder and in a very short time they were on their way. Three of these people ended up buying their own equipment after doing this only one time. I did end up selling one of these guys the pads we used on his boat simply because I didn't want to clean the pads after the paint transfer. I showed him how and he was good with that.

The moral to this story if any is if you love your car, learn to do this. You'll be glad you did.
 
marlinspike said:
Thanks for all the info guys. My main reason not to want to buy a polisher is not to risk doing something harmful to the finish while I'm learning how to use it...
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That shouldn't really be a concern. Using a modern random orbital polisher is so safe and simple that..well, if you can drive a car....

..What about if I change my question to be more localized, like after wet sanding out a small scratch? The 3M Rubbing Compound gets out the sanding marks, but then the 3M swirl mark remover seems to do very little (or perhaps it leaves behind it's own fine scratches), and the 3M Hand Glaze does nothing at all as far as I can tell (I now use P21S Paintwork Cleanser where I would have used the Hand Glaze before, i.e. just to get out contaminants)...
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Most neophytes wetsand too deeply with the wrong grit of paper used the wrong way. Almost *always*. That said, 3M makes so many Rubbing Compounds that I can only guess which one you used (hope you wore a mask if it was PI-II!!), ditto for their Swirl Removers. But hardly any of their current products work all that well by hand. And the Glaze is utterly nonabrasive. The P21s stuff is functionally nonabrasive on most paints.

Wetsanding, and correcting the sanding marks (let alone by hand!) is a somewhat complexs issue and most people with limited training/experience botch it up. Remember that if you take off a few too many mils of clear you'll precipitate premature failure from UV exposure. I forget the actual cutoff point,but it's a lot less than most people think (and it's a LONG ways from "cutting through the clear").

Anyhow, running a polisher is a zillion times safer than trying even the most minor wetsanding work.


..I try to avoid Meguiar's ever since I watched their wheel cleaner strip the paint off my wheels and bleach the driveway below the wheel. Maybe all the other products are good, but just out of spite...
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Eh, just because you used the wrong product for the wheels in question (I bet you used their Wheel Brightener) I wouldn't, well..."don't cut off your nose to spite your face" comes to mind ;)

EDIT: I've been reading some of the links. I'm starting to think my real problem with the products I already use isn't the product, but that I use a towel to apply it. Time to research pads...
Click to expand...

Use high-quality MF for almost everything and certainly for anything other than the initial work. MY take on this is that you're using the wrong products too, and such work is time consuming enough if you use the right stuff!
 
Accumulator said:
Most neophytes wetsand too deeply with the wrong grit of paper used the wrong way. Almost *always*. That said, 3M makes so many Rubbing Compounds that I can only guess which one you used (hope you wore a mask if it was PI-II!!), ditto for their Swirl Removers. But hardly any of their current products work all that well by hand. And the Glaze is utterly nonabrasive. The P21s stuff is functionally nonabrasive on most paints.
....
Eh, just because you used the wrong product for the wheels in question (I bet you used their Wheel Brightener) I wouldn't, well..."don't cut off your nose to spite your face" comes to mind ;)
....
Use high-quality MF for almost everything and certainly for anything other than the initial work. MY take on this is that you're using the wrong products too, and such work is time consuming enough if you use the right stuff!
Click to expand...

3000 grit and this compound 3M Rubbing Compound, 8 ounce, 03900 - 3M Auto (which seems like Perfect It II to me just in a smaller bottle)
It definitely was not the wrong type of wheel product. It was more than 10 years ago, and I don't think it was anything I see on their website now, but it was definitely not something that needed dilution. I do remember it was not part of their professional line nor their Gold Class line.

I promise I've tried to get used to microfiber, but they seem to pick up things just sitting in the air and never let them go, including after a wash. Maybe that's another thing that I'm doing wrong. I used to get better results from Zymol cotton towels than the Blu-Velvet micofibers I have, but my Zymol's are all finally worn out and I can't find any more good cotton towels, so that's another issue I'm facing.
 
marlinspike- OK, didn't mean to jump to an unflattering conclusion!

Props to you for using 3K paper, nice and mild. Still takes a bit of work to correct by hand though. Sounds like maybe you just need to use something a bit more aggressive for the follow-up. The PI-II (don't breath the dust) doesn't leave all *that* bad of a finish, so it oughta be doable.

Hard to say about the wheel cleaner, some wheels just have finishes that are more fragile than one might expect.

Big trick with MFs' contaminant-retention is to not let them pick up nasty stuff in the first place, easier said than done, huh?!? Good/safe cotton is tough to find these days..used to be you could get "Concours Buffing Towels" and/or "Koala Soft" ones.
 
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