Attempting To Detail... Suggestions Please

[dajonx]

Hi,



I am planning on detailing my 2006 Acura TL in Nighthawk Black Pearl over the course of next week. This car has a lot of swirls, nicks, scratches, etc. I don't have a polisher so I'll be doing this all by hand (wish me luck!). The products I have are:



-Meguiars Ultimate Compound, Ultimate Liquid Wax, Ultimate Protectant Spray, Quik Detailer, Quik Wax

-ONR

-Lexol Cleaner and Conditioner

-Mother's Clay Bar

-Invisible Glass

-RainX



I was thinking of first washing the car with ONR and clay the entire car. Then use Ultimate Compound and probably do a panel per day (especially since I've read that it's going to kill my arms). For the panels I complete, I'll apply Quik Detailer, wait 12 hours, and then apply two coats of Ultimate Liquid Wax. Since the car will be used during the week, I'll apply Quik Detailer before using Ultimate Compound to clean it up. Hopefully, I can be done all next week. After completing a panel, I'll also tackle the interior with Lexol and Ultimate Protectant Spray. How does this sound?



I was also thinking of fixing chips and scratches that are deep using this person's post:

If you are comfortable with wet sanding that may be the way to go. If your new to it I wouldn't use more than 2000 grit.



You MUST use a firm sanding block. The reason behind this is a soft block will sand the peak of the blob and touch down on a perimeter around the blob. Think of a dot then shiny circle(unsanded)then dull circle(sanded). What can happen is sanding down too much clear around the blob. This may not cause a problem now but during polishing after sanding or further down the road. You will end up with the imfamous dull spot(no clear).

A hard block will plane down the tip of the blob first if you are carefull. imagine balancing a ball on the tip of your finger.



Start with 2000, 1500 if your comfortable(if using 1500 stop once the blob is almost gone then goto 2000) sand till you JUST start to dull the surounding area.

The goal is to stay centered on the tip. Follow with 3m 3000grit trizact foam sanding disk(go where you can buy them individualy) to make polishing out easier. Then compound M105 or equivalent then to polish.



The question I have is when do you apply the clear coat?



Are there any other products that I would need or perhaps suggest better products? Do I need a paint sealant if I'm going through all this? If so, what would you suggest? Is there a sealant that would be good on any color paint?



Thank you!

 

[Richard Grasa]

I would not do any wet sanding on that paint if you don't have experience. The pearl is in the clear and if you thin the clear even a little bit, you will change the shade of the pearl in that spot and it will be very obvious where you went to far. Even being experienced with wet sanding, I would not want to sand pearl paint. When you are doing this process of sanding the blob of touch up paint down even with the clear, it is EXTREMELY easy to sand too much clear around the blob of paint and even sand all the way through it into the base coat. When this happens, the only fix is a respray, which is big $$. I would highly recommend practicing ALOT on a car that has a solid color such as red or black before you try any of this on pearl paint. I can almost garantee that a person with no experience is going to screw this up big time. I have alot of experience with wet sanding and I would most likely turn away a job like this due to the fact it's so easy to mess up, even when you know what you are doing.



I can almost garantee as well that once you are done with hand compounding 2 or 3 panels you will wish you never started it without a machine polisher, especially if there's alot of defect as you say.



Not trying to be a buzzkill, but that's just the reality of it. I'm not saying you can't do it, but please, please practice on a scrap fender or something before you try sanding on your car. Even 2000 grit will thin the clear faster than you would think.

 

[dajonx]

Thank you very much, Rich. I absolutely had no idea that the pearl was in the clear coat... That really sucks...



I understand that I will wish that I had a polisher, but in a sick, demented way, I want to see just how sucky it is. Then if I purchase a polisher, I could truly appreciate it.



Do you happen to know if the touch-up paint from Acura includes the clear coat with the pearl? I will practice on my old clear coat failed car (as it can't look any worse anyways) on the area where the paint still looks decent. I guess I'll use the rust converter primer on areas where there is rust and just touch-up those areas without wet sanding.



What do you think about my procedure? Do you think I need a sealant?

 

[imported_RZJZA80]

Good info, I didn't know the pearl was in the clear and not in the base coat either.

 

[Thomas Dekany]

Welcome! I am having a 2013 TSX coming to me that was hacked up by both the dealer and a detail shop. Same color. How you are going to do it by hand is beyond me. I did a test spot on it when I gave the estimate and needed wool and high speed rotary to level.



Good luck though. Please post your detail here and how it turns out.



Welcome to Autopia.

 

[Dan]

This is sort of like saying you want to pull a tractor trailer load across a desert, on a bike. Fail written all over it. If you don't value your time, go for it. Otherwise buy a DA and forget the wetsanding.

 

[Richard Grasa]

Thank you very much, Rich. I absolutely had no idea that the pearl was in the clear coat... That really sucks...



I understand that I will wish that I had a polisher, but in a sick, demented way, I want to see just how sucky it is. Then if I purchase a polisher, I could truly appreciate it.



Do you happen to know if the touch-up paint from Acura includes the clear coat with the pearl? I will practice on my old clear coat failed car (as it can't look any worse anyways) on the area where the paint still looks decent. I guess I'll use the rust converter primer on areas where there is rust and just touch-up those areas without wet sanding.



What do you think about my procedure? Do you think I need a sealant?

I know what you mean about wanting to try it by hand, I'm kind of the same way, I like doing things by hand because when you are finished the results are that much more satisfying, but in this case I wouldn't even try it.



I don't know if the dealer includes the clear with the touchup, I would dive them a call and ask. I must warn you though, that no matter how well that touchup matches in the bottle, it's not going to match when you apply it. You WILL be able to see where the touchups have been done. It's just the nature of pearl paint, and also metallics. How deep the mica particles or the pearl lays in the paint determines how dark or light the paint will look when the sun hits it. Matching the depth of the factory paint is impossible with a paint brush.



Do you NEED a sealant? No, but I'd put a coat on it.

 

[dajonx]

Thank you for your advice and suggestions.



Wow, I guess I'm really underestimating just how difficult this will be... If three professional detailers are telling me that I'm crazy to even attempt correcting paint by hand, I guess I am! I would still like to try it though. Chances are I'll give up after the first day and research polishers. So just for future reference, what would you guys recommend? I have read many old threads about Meguairs versus Griots versus Flex and I'm just not sure if things have changed since those threads were created.



Could you guys give me some "cost-effective" recommendations of polishers, pads, and backing plates? I assume I'm going to need a 3" backing plate for those tight areas. I'm guessing this is going to be pretty pricey...



Also, which sealant do you think would look good on any paint?



Thank you!



Edit: After reading more and more about the comparison threads, I'm leaning on Griot's Garage 6" Random Orbital Polisher with 10' cord since it has a lifetime warranty and it's cheaper. As for the backing plate and pads, I truly have no idea.

 

[Thomas Dekany]

To keep it really simple, order HD UNO HD POLISH and HD POXY.



That is what I am using on the 2013. POXY will look beautiful. On any color. Order the HD polisher, black wool, pads, HD Yellow cutting foam, HD green polishing foam and HD black finishing foam

 

[Accumulator]

... So just for future reference, what would you guys recommend? I have read many old threads about Meguairs versus Griots versus Flex and I'm just not sure if things have changed since those threads were created...

You won't go wrong with any of those three (or with the 3d/HD one either). I only use the Flex for aggressive work but plenty of people use it for everything.

I assume I'm going to need a 3" backing plate for those tight areas. I'm guessing this is going to be pretty pricey...

I'm quite confident that whatever you do, you'll consider it money well-spent compared to trying to do such stuff by hand. You might not need the 3" pads as it's often (usually?) possible to get into tight spots with larger pads...more often than one might think.

Also, which sealant do you think would look good on any paint?

Don't worry much about products "looking right on a specific paint". While there are some diffs in how certain products look, those diffs are really pretty minimal in the sense of how a vehicle looks in the real world; I've used a "signature look" sealant on paint and thought it looked...well, not quite what I'd prefer but after a while I came to actually *like* the appearance, and that particular combo generated incredible compliments from other people as in strangers coming up to me in parking lots to compliment me on how swell it looked.

After reading more and more about the comparison threads, I'm leaning on Griot's Garage 6" Random Orbital Polisher with 10' cord since it has a lifetime warranty and it's cheaper. As for the backing plate and pads, I truly have no idea.

The Griot's is a very good unit, but I'd get the one with the longer cord even if you have plenty of extension cords. The backing plates are a standard-mount situation so you can always get different sized ones later if you need them. Pads are sorta a personal preference kind of thing, but don't get too caught up in all the different varieties; you don't need a zillion slightly different pads just 1) something aggressive, 2) something moderate, 3) something mild. You can always get more involved with the whole thing later if you decide it's really necessary. FWIW, most of us prefer flat foam over dimpled foam.

 

[chrisguga]

You don't want to do this by hand. Trust me. It's exhausting enough work with a polisher.



You'll really want a mix and match of items. Different companies have their strong products and their weaker ones.



It sounds like you have a good base of products. Stoners Invisible Glass is awesome. ONR is great. Lexol is great. If you want a spray wax, I'd go with Optimum (spray) car wax. Read up on all the amazing reviews it receives. I bought a gallon of it after buying the smaller container if that tells you anything. Those Meg's compounds are fine. They aren't the best, but they'll work A-ok for you. The clay bar and rain-x are fine.



You have wax. You don't need a sealant and wax. It doesn't sound like you need anything except a tire dressing (Meg's Endurance Gel is my current favorite), a polisher (the Groit's Garage comes with a lifetime warranty...can't beat that), and pads (microfiber are great, I like to finish with foam. The 3D foam is nice).



I hope that helps a little.

 

[pwaug]

I agree the GG DA makes sense for those of us who just detail as a hobby--it has all the power we need ---we may only use it a few times a year so if something happens 5 years from now we can just return it for repair or replacement. I bought the one with the 10' cord and picked up a 16 guage(recommended by Groits) 12' 2way extension at HD for about $7 and taped it permanently to the GG DA cord and it works fine.



Detailers Domain (one of Autopia's sponsors) has a nice package that includes the 5" backing plate and ten pads of your choice http://www.detailersdomain.com/Griots-Garage-6-inch-Random-Orbital-Polisher-Plus-Kit-_p_690.html You could pick 4 yellow for UNO, 4 green for HD Polish, 2 black or red to apply POXY. (Uber pads, HD pads, Buff & Shine pads all seem to be the same) I also picked up a 3.5" backing plate and two of each color B&S 4" pads for the small bits as I felt the 3" set up would be a little tippy, but I have no experience to back that up.



I've had great success with the HD products as a beginner--they are very easy to work with--no dusting, long working time, easy to remove. Can't comment on the black wool pad as I've never tried it.



Would suggest you do allot of reading and watching videos and find something to practice on before you tackle your car.



Thomas--can you put together a short tutorial on how to use the black wool pad with a DA for us beginners? How many pads/car, arm speed, machine speed etc

 

[chrisguga]

You use the Tuf Buf black wool pad just like any other pad. You'll need a wool spur to fluff it between sets which you can buy on amazon or ebay for less than $10. I also prime mine like you do a microfiber pad when first using it. I wouldn't recommend it for a beginner though as it cuts harder than microfiber cutting pads, but does leave behind a very nice finish that only takes one polishing step to leave LSP ready.



I can hammer out horribly finished paint with my PCXP, 5" black wool pads, and M105 and now M101 so fast it'll make your head spin.