Are waxes , sealants and coatings surface contamination?

M

Mike lambert

New member
At the Griot’s advanced class today, we had a discussion about the importance of decontamination in the paint correction process. So, if you want clean paint to start with, are the above considered contamination? My opinion is yes. They inhibit your initial attempt at correction. You must initially remove these prior to defect removal. Carnuba based products shouldn’t be a problem, however fairly stout sealants and coatings May survive both mechanical and chemical attempts at decontamination. Just something to think about, I don’t think there is a right or wrong answer, just a thought?


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I agree. Anything that is on your paint prior to a complete detail would be considered contamination. Contamination interferes with the proper adherence of a new LSP and requires removal.

Luckily I have not run into the mythical coating that requires wet sanding. I have run into coatings that require a compound and microfiber pad for removal. Kisho may be the one though. It was tough to remove before it cured. I’ll find out next year, lol.
 
Waxes trap contaminates. That`s why hybrid wax products are really a waste of money. The issue with long term coating revolves around their removal. How does one know that they`ve been removed.
 
wannafbody said:
Waxes trap contaminates. That`s why hybrid wax products are really a waste of money. The issue with long term coating revolves around their removal. How does one know that they`ve been removed.
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Can you expand? Are you saying hybrids aren’t good because they trap contaminants during their lifetime (an extended period of time)vs the more pure (short duration) carnauba waxes?
 
Mikie lambert- Nice to see somebody *not* just say "polish right through it, the abrasives will cut through existing LSP with no problems.." even if that is often the case.

Sometimes it`s necessary, sometimes it`s merely desirable, other times it`s unnecessary; purely situational IME but there`s little downside to giving it a quick wipe with something that`ll strip it.

On the subject of LSPs trapping contamination, IME that`s another situational topic. Some do, some don`t, and IMO it`s not just about the LSP but also the contamination itself and/or other factors. E.g., I`ve merely refreshed FK1000P for *years* with no decontamination/stripping at all and when I finally did "do it right" there was no discernible contamination. But that`s just *my* situation..one of those (literally, properly) subjective things where it`s risky to extrapolate.

I agree emphatically that on this one there`s no right/wrong answer.
 
Well , you can polish it off, I’ve removed many coatings that way. How do you tell? Well in my experience I notice a change in color, but most coatings also require a wipe with the recommended products. As far as durable sealants, polishing may be the only way, but then you need to hit that section again to properly cut or polish. My opinion?
 
wannafbody said:
Waxes trap contaminates. That`s why hybrid wax products are really a waste of money. The issue with long term coating revolves around their removal. How does one know that they`ve been removed.
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Waxes do trap contaminants, but they also shed them as the wax wears off. I`ve had way more paint defects using sealants than I ever did with waxes, and yes it makes me question why do I bother. Time to dig up some good paste wax!
 
Dan said:
Waxes do trap contaminants, but they also shed them as the wax wears off. I`ve had way more paint defects using sealants than I ever did with waxes, and yes it makes me question why do I bother. Time to dig up some good paste wax!
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So I guess what is being said is that even when applying wax on a clean, decontaminated surface, wax will then catch/trap new contaminants from that point forward until the wax wears off and the contaminants that did not find their way into the clear coat, but only into the wax, will shed.

I still dont see how sealants or coatings are any different unless we’re saying they “deflect” more contaminants than wax. We do hear a lot of cases on the forum of coatings losing their behavior after some months and requiring decon to get its properties back. I also see wax or sealant keeps its properties (beading) for equivalent amount of time, so is there really any discernible difference between which LSPs trap more contaminants? Or does Sealant/wax keep its beading behavior longer for other reasons such as how they layer into/onto the clearcoat differently?
 
The question revolves on whether the contaminants stick into the paint or just into the wax matrix. I`ve had less issues with contaminants sticking into the paint with a sealant vs a wax. I recently washed the roof of my truck which hasn`t been done for at least 6 months, maybe longer. I used a well known sealant last year. The roof cleaned up easily.

Even if you didn`t do anything but regular washing, paint would probably last 12-15 years. With some protection, it probably will last longer.
 
wannafbody said:
The question revolves on whether the contaminants stick into the paint or just into the wax matrix. I`ve had less issues with contaminants sticking into the paint with a sealant vs a wax. I recently washed the roof of my truck which hasn`t been done for at least 6 months, maybe longer. I used a well known sealant last year. The roof cleaned up easily.

Even if you didn`t do anything but regular washing, paint would probably last 12-15 years. With some protection, it probably will last longer.
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Yeah if you are going six months, there is no way a real wax protects that long. Any non synthetic wax is lucky to last 6 weeks.
 
Dan said:
Yeah if you are going six months, there is no way a real wax protects that long. Any non synthetic wax is lucky to last 6 weeks.
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The average car owner probably washes their car once or twice a month in nice weather. This is why wash and wax products and spray waxes are the latest thing OTC. I`d be surprised if more than 10-15% of car owners even wax their car anymore.

I bought P21s years ago, looked great but I think it only last about 3 weeks or so. I think as the waxes break down, more and more contaminants fall through the cracks, so to speak, and attach to the paint. If caught soon enough they might wash off, if not they might adhere more strongly. The worst offender is road tar during the summer months.
 
Absolutely, the surface has to be completely stripped and pure in order to correctly identify all defects.
 
wannafbody said:
I bought P21s years ago, looked great but I think it only last about 3 weeks or so. I think as the waxes break down, more and more contaminants fall through the cracks, so to speak, and attach to the paint. If caught soon enough they might wash off, if not they might adhere more strongly. The worst offender is road tar during the summer months.
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I’m still lost as to what is being implied. Are you saying that a car that is waxed will end up with more contaminants (not including the wax itself being called a contaminate per the OP) than it would with no protection at all?
 
acuRAS82 said:
I’m still lost as to what is being implied. Are you saying that a car that is waxed will end up with more contaminants (not including the wax itself being called a contaminate per the OP) than it would with no protection at all?
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I`m not sure that there is any way of measuring that other than to look at a clarbar. The clear coat is certainly harder than any wax and waxes break down in the heat, so it`s possible the wax would hold more contaminants than paint.
 
wannafbody said:
I`m not sure that there is any way of measuring that other than to look at a clarbar. The clear coat is certainly harder than any wax and waxes break down in the heat, so it`s possible the wax would hold more contaminants than paint.
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OK. I will stop trying to figure out what`s going on. Sorry if I confused anyone else! I`m done for now :)
 
Mike lambert said:
Not trying to start any confusion, do you consider removing any protection as part of the decontamination process?
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Not sure if this was intended for me or not.. I never thought of removing the existing LSP part of the “decon process”; however I saw it as a valuable step to be done prior to the decon process, to remove as much of the former LSP as possible to prevent it from messing with my polish.

In other words, I do the step but just never thought of it as “decon”, until maybe now.

I will note however that if I’m going a compound or aggressive swirl remover step, I’m less concerned about trying to remove LSP prior to these steps. I figure they can handle trace amounts of LSP while still providing their expected performance/cutting
 
wannafbody said:
The average car owner probably washes their car once or twice a month in nice weather. This is why wash and wax products and spray waxes are the latest thing OTC. I`d be surprised if more than 10-15% of car owners even wax their car anymore.

I bought P21s years ago, looked great but I think it only last about 3 weeks or so. I think as the waxes break down, more and more contaminants fall through the cracks, so to speak, and attach to the paint. If caught soon enough they might wash off, if not they might adhere more strongly. The worst offender is road tar during the summer months.
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I think once or twice a month is generous even when it is nice! Agree with you on spray waxes. I used OCW on my Wrangler for 3 years almost exclusively, after every wash. After about 3 years it was finally feeling like it should be clayed. As good as the spray stuff is, there really is no good reason to spend time with a sealant or even a coating as long as you maintain the spray wax.
 
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