anybody have trouble applying product by hand?

I

imported_Guido

New member
poorboys 2.5, 3m compound, zaino zpc and aio all seem to leave more marring on my paint then they take away. i've tried 100% cotton towels and microfiber towels, using firm pressure and light pressure, circular motions and straight motions, and they all come out the same. i thought it was because my car was black but i just used 3m compound, zpc and zaino aio on my gf's red car and its the same thing. it's not until i use the z5pro that the swirls are filled in. also though the z5 is hard to take off and leaving streaks. I think i might of put a little too much zfx in but maybe it's my towels? This time i used microfiber for everything except removing the z5 i tried microfiber and 100% cotton, with and without detailer. is it my towels or technique? anybody?
 
First of all, cotton is a big no no. It will mar the paint. Low quality microfibre will also mar it. I'm not familiar with the Zaino system but it sounds like you need to polish the paint with something more than just a wax or sealant.
 
it's because all of those polishes and compounds are too heavy for hand use, they need a machine to break them down properly. only light and finishing polishes are made to be used by hand or machine.
 
8Banger said:
it's because all of those polishes and compounds are too heavy for hand use, they need a machine to break them down properly. only light and finishing polishes are made to be used by hand or machine.
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I will second that. Get a Flex if you can afford it.
 
8Banger said:
it's because all of those polishes and compounds are too heavy for hand use, they need a machine to break them down properly. only light and finishing polishes are made to be used by hand or machine.
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Agreed. The heat and friction generated by a machine polisher (needed to break down the abrasives) cannot be duplicated by hand.
 
yea Zpc should be applied by machine. AIO isn't really much of a "polish" it won't take out many imperfections it's more meant to help clean the paint and set up a base coat for the z5 and z2.



I havn't used ZPC before but I have used AIO with great results. never had a need for PC because I don't have a problem with swirls or any marring of that sort.



Cotton a big no no? wouldn't have thought that 100% nice plush cotton towels would scratch where a MF would not. I use good bath towels with great results so far. I know Zaino doesn't want you to use MF because the quality control for them is poor and they are made overseas. He really pushes for his customers to use 100% cotton made in USA bath towels.



I wouldn't use ZPC unless you are looking to actually correct the swirls and other imperfections by removing them. any paint correction needs to be done by machine. as with all the other polishes ( my opinion but i'm sure most agree). Zaino AIO can also be machine applied but is just fine by hand. not many abrasives in it. If you don't break down the abrasives in the product it will leave micromarring and other oddities since you didn't go all the way with the product. to do true paint correction you will need a porter cable, flex or another type of Orbital buffer. I personaly have not stepped into the world of paint correction yet. I have everything I need to keep my car cleaner than anything on the road but as for removing paint imperfections I just have not invested the money into a buffer and more polishes.



If you want to remove swirls and not put the money into a buffer my recommendation woudl be a glaze product, something like z5. these products do not remove swilrs or other marring but they will cover it up and make it look like they arn't there. This is what I have been doing with the minor swirls I have gotten over time with my 08 ram 1500 black. I wash about once or more a week and have a few swirls here and there. I just use Z5 to get them out. Swirls are inevitable you can help keep them away from using good wash technique but it's gonna happen if it's a vehicle you wash frequently. just gotta leanr to live with it for a time until you can fill them in or polish out.



as for the Z5 streaking. how much are you using. you should be using very very little Z5. Like an Oz. for the entire car is more than enough. It should be hard to tell that you have polish on it and havn't buffed it off from five to ten feet away. if you are getting like a white dust almost like whne you put on a carnuba wax then ur using too much.
 
I've used all sorts of aggressive products by hand and IME it's risky to generalize too much. Yeah, some will have such aggressive intial bite that you can't smooth things out working by hand, but IME that usually only applies to true "rotary-only" products, and not even all of those.



More likely, again, just *IME/IMO*, it's a matter of the paint just being too soft for the approach (product/media/technique) in question, or else the application media (specifically) isn't right- not soft enough in-and-of itself or not right for the grittiness of the product.



Cotton *can* be OK, just as MF can be *not* OK. Test it and see. You simply cannot generalize on this one, period. CBTs/DFTs are cotton ;)



Technique: big thing is to not press too hard during the initial application, you need to start the breakdown before you apply much pressure...sorta a case of rounding off the sharp edges of the abrasive (e.g., I used 1Z Pasta Intensiv by hand on a tight spot on the Yukon...worked fine, except where I pressed too hard too soon, whereupon it left *awful* scratches that I had to compound away with 3M RC, which again, I was using by hand).
 
thanks guys. it's a little discouraging when you have success on one car and do the same thing to another car and it looks like crap. I'm starting to feel that when it comes to detailing you never really know what's going on. I do have a porter cable but I hate using it because any amount of pressure and the damn wheel stops turning. I guess I should just stock up on quality towels and sonus pads and start from scratch. ugh..
 
I recently had great success applying M105 by hand with a MF applicator on an 11 year old Escort. Removed all the swirls. Cotton and Foam left behind marring.
 
pwaug said:
I recently had great success applying M105 by hand with a MF applicator on an 11 year old Escort. Removed all the swirls. Cotton and Foam left behind marring.
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I tried 105 on my old single stage, repainted MBZ. The paint is badly oxidized, etchings everywhere, etc etc. I did one 2x2 ft piece on the hood, took me 30 minutes to get it looking mediocre. Gave up. Gonna get me a machine, my time is worth way more than that.
 
well the PC slows down when pressure is applied so taht you don't cause problems with the paint.



I agree with ACC. I think one generalization thatt can be made is if you purchase cheap mf cotton or w/e it will probably be a problem. I use 100% made in USA bath towels from dept. stores and other bath places. I have not used much mf except for my interior detailing. I do plan on buying some good cobra mf or sonus and see what I think of it. I think a big thing and reason why some people get marring out of certain towels is they use too much pressure. I see people drying cars with cotton towels and they are giving themselves a workout trying to dry. I really take my time drying and don't really use any pressure or much motion. just let the towel soak it up. same thing for removing polish or wax. dont go psycho in it just buff nice and smooth and ez.





at this point my 08 ram in black doesn't have any problems a few swirls in a couple spots but nothing that is noticable from more than a few feet away. I more concentrate on keeping it clean and protected. Over time as more imperfections appear just over time and due to the frequent washing I may consider some polishes maybe Zpc or some Menzerna stuff and try application by hand but most likely at that point I'll have much more experience under my belt and be able to handle a porter cable.



With detailing you will learn tricks and such and more finesses techniques as time goes on. I find that in the past few months I've gotten better and better at taking care of my truck and finding better ways to do things.
 
Guido said:
.. I do have a porter cable but I hate using it because any amount of pressure and the damn wheel stops turning...
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If you use 4" pads, let alone the little 3.5" LC PFW pad, you won't have that "merely jiggling under pressure" problem. In fact, it'll behave so aggressively that you'll have to be a little careful.



The smaller pads (again, *especially* the PFW ones) make it a whole 'nother ballgame; even serious issues on hard clear come out pretty easily for me.
 
Guido said:
tI hate using it because any amount of pressure and the damn wheel stops turning.
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Mine did that too until someone told me to look in the box for the little spacer that goes on the backing plate, worked great after I put that in :idea
 
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