Any airplane detailers out here ??

J

JS

New member
Anybody have any experiences with taking a car to a pro detailer to have airbrush repair of stone chips and the like? Would like to see if someone can do a better job than me with my matchsticks and bottle of touch-up paint.
 
I asked this same question over a year ago. Brad B. replied back then that there are some good cases where the artist did a good job covering deep scratches and or chips. But just like anything else, you do have your bad "artists." I was in the same situation as you are in right now. Apparently, no one back then had any experience or knowledge of an air brush. Sorry. Laters.
 
Thanks for your reply Don....interesting to hear that there are good cases...makes me think it might be worth a try. Have to do a little local research...ask around, I guess.



Airbrush repairs seem to be a real obscure detailing topic for some reason.
 
I see this company has an affiliate in the Albany area--where i go often on business, and to visit family--I may check it out. Thanks.
 
I have a chance to detail a 1997 Cessna 182 Skylane.
It has sat outside alot in its life and now is in a little garage made of airplanes but at least its covered.

I gather from reading up on it, the products used to protect the paint are different than automotive, because they have to be able to withstand extreme heat, cold, water, etc., is this really true ??

Would you use automotive compounds like M105/205 on it or does the 11-year old Urethane paint need something that is aircraft-specific??

Is the paint so hard you really need wool buffing pads, like the old Schlegel pads I learned on over 40 years ago ??
Any input would be appreciated - Angelo, know anything about the products for airplanes ??

Thanks !!
Dan F
 
Stokdgs said:
I have a chance to detail a 1997 Cessna 182 Skylane.
It has sat outside alot in its life and now is in a little garage made of airplanes but at least its covered.

I gather from reading up on it, the products used to protect the paint are different than automotive, because they have to be able to withstand extreme heat, cold, water, etc., is this really true ??
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Not necessarily. For the paint and windows you can use the same stuff as on autos. Your not talking about Concorde-type environments with a 182. They're generally below 10,000 ft and the temp drop is only 3.5 degrees F per thousand feet. Yeah, they get wet in the rain. But they don't have to deal with the road crud that autos do and stay cleaner much longer.

Stokdgs said:
Would you use automotive compounds like M105/205 on it or does the 11-year old Urethane paint need something that is aircraft-specific??

Is the paint so hard you really need wool buffing pads, like the old Schlegel pads I learned on over 40 years ago ??
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YOU might use multi-step compounds, polish and an LSP..... I sure wouldn't. A Skylane doesn't look very big until you're standing on top of a stepladder doing the top of a wing..... or worse yet, the underside with the buffer over your head and your arms about to fall off. Low wing airplanes are easy, you can use a creeper for the underside. High wings are a real painful treat. :(

I used to use a 1-step cleaner-wax by Collinite, I think it was called Sapphire somethingorother. Pretty good cut and cleaning abilities. Most of your aircraft are going to be painted with Dupont Imron or something similar. Hard, yes... which is good. You're not going to be trying for a totally swirl free finish like you would on a show car. You're going to be removing oxidation and grime and leaving some protection.

The commuter guys that used our maintenance hanger at night used to use 8" Schlegel wool with rotaries and the Collinite stuff.... bought it by the ton. They cleaned the commuters without even washing 'em first except for some degreaser on the undersides and around the exhaust stacks. Used the pads once and tossed 'em in a barrel where I harvested 'em. Washed 'em and reused 'em over and over again. Matter of fact, 25 years later I still have half a dozen of 'em in good shape.

I'd recommend a fairly aggressive 1-step cleaner/wax and wool on the paint, D-151 might be a good choice plus it's pretty reasonably priced by the gallon. Plast X and/or Plexus on the plastic windows.... by hand. Imparting swirls you may not be able to see until the sun is streaming through the plexiglass when you're trying to land is not a good thing.

If you're not intimately familiar with aircraft you're going to need the owner to tape up the static ports and cover the pitot tube and other sensitive stuff. Getting water in there is decidedly un-good. Forgetting to remove the tape or covers before takeoff can be disasterous! Deice boots get manufacturer recommended IceX and ONLY IceX. Very special rubber compounds and some dressings can lead to severe deterioration. Shouldn't have to be concerned with that anyway, don't think I've ever seen a 182 with boots. Gust locks on the controls will keep the ailerons, elevators and rudder from flopping around while you're working on 'em.

If you're not checked out in that type you'll want the owner to deploy the flaps and open the gear doors if it's a retractable. No slippery dressings on control yokes or rudder pedals / brakes. Also no shiney dressings in the cockpit. A little bit of glare on the ground can be blindingly annoying in the air.

Your handy tip of the day... keep some large soft bristled toothbrushes in your pockets to remove residue as you work. If you've never done an airplane you've never seen so many seams, rivets and Dzus fasteners in your life!

Have fun :wink:

TL
 
^ T L Mitchell....TID's resident areospace expert :wizard: Loads of good advice here ^ :)

The part about your arms feeling like wet noodles after buffing the bottom half of the wings is very true. You also wanna wear rain gear while washing and use straight APC for your soap :2 cents:
 
If you do not have an incredible amount of liability insurance-which specifically covers aircraft- I would not go anywhere near an airplane, there really is a good reason why the going rate for a G4 is about 7 large.

Granted the type of plane you are looking at is a bit different, but the risks are the same. The most insignificant looking dimple in the skin will, if the owner pursues the matter, end up costing many thousands of dollars to get repaired and then, there is this neat phenomena with aircraft called, diminshed value-see, once its been repaired things just aren't the same anymore.


Does your plane have any static wicks?, the short funny looking small 'rods' attached to the edge of the wings? ask how much it costs to replace one that gets 'damaged'.
 
Tom, Flash,

Thanks for the info - really good information for sure !!
Yes, I saw the million rivets and dzus fasteners on it, luckily the entire fuselage and wings, prop spinner, is all painted, (or would that be unlucky?), and the worst paint seems to be on the top of the entire honking long wing, the top of the area above the cockpit and probably the top of the sides of the tail.
I was thinking that if I cant get these dull painted surfaces clean easily, I would have to go to a one-step product, so I dont spend days on it with multiple steps.
I have read elsewhere that one doesnt want to use any products that are not aircraft approved, hopefully Boeing approved products.
So I found a product locally from Shell Oil that is called AeroShell Flight Jacket that has separate products for degreasing, polishing, and plexiglass.
They are not too expensive from what I could tell, but will go in next week and see them up close and personal.
So, Tom, in your experience, there is no way a foam or wool foam pad could clean off the paint except wool pads??
I have seen other aircraft detailers using nothing but random orbitals now and looks like they might be using foam pads too. Perhaps they are working on just newly acquired aircraft that were not very dirty to begin with....

I am not planning I dont think, to pursue this line of work very much at this time, but it LOOKS like it could be good, has its own different sets of challenges, and I am probably going to just get this one done and see if it doesnt kill me, and go from there.
I have already done his wife's Porsche Cayenne, and it turned out so good, he decided he didnt need his boat detailer any longer to detail his airplane.
I of course want to do the best job possible, not harm the paint or airplane skin, frame, etc., and keep him coming back with more toys to detail.. :)

You guys are awesome !! Will buy you lunch/dinner, next time you hit the Sea-Tac Airport, ok ??

Dan F.
 
Boats/Airplanes/Motorhomes I personally find working on any of these 3 a very unpleasant experience. If someone were to work on these day in day out I'm sure you would find shortcuts/get use to it :Swordfight:

Theres a good untapped market out there for Airplanes IMPO. If you could get tapped into a local airstrip and put out some quality work you could probally stay pretty busy. All of these airplane guys are a very tight bunch and when they find someone who is competent, they spread the word to each other.They also usually have discressionary income/RICH BASTARDS :Dancing Dot:

As for freaking out getting the wrong parts wet. I feel you on this one. I remember the first plane I did. I asked the owner what I should be aware of/not get wet. He repied > These planes are designed to fly in the rain/ hence getting wet is not a problem. The only thing I can think of off hand are those flaps on the wings.I'm pretty sure they are hydrualic, however I wouldn't go real crazy cleaning all the grease that makes those things go up/down. They control the steering/take-off/landing :scared:

I remember detailing a plane this onetime. The next day I was driving down the road and breaking news came on the radio. Seems a plane had crashed at the very airport I'd had just been at. Turned out not to be the plane I had been workin on, but my butthole was defainetally puckered up there for a minute or 2 :tongue:

I have always just used automotive wax. Collunite 845 Liquid Insulator Wax works well for me, as does the Duragloss line of products :smile:

I by know means claim to be an expert on aircraft detailing, but its really not much different then automotive. Just a larger mass. The paint is always very thick. I hope some of this info helps. Maybe TL will chime in when he gets to work :D

If at all possiible see if you can hire somone to come and help out with some of the grunt work/moral support :sarge
 
Stokdgs said:
(snipola)......in your experience, there is no way a foam or wool foam pad could clean off the paint except wool pads??
I have seen other aircraft detailers using nothing but random orbitals now and looks like they might be using foam pads too. Perhaps they are working on just newly acquired aircraft that were not very dirty to begin with....
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You could use whatever trips your trigger and get the job done. On the wide expanses an 8" pad on a rotary would sure make life easier though. If I were going to choose a DA it would be a Flex with PFW. Working under the wing or belly a lightweight DA might be preferable. One of my thoughts on wool vs foam involve the possibility of slightly uneven edges or flush screws that aren't quite flush could rip up a foam pad in short order.

As for aircraft-only products, I don't see it as necessary for your particular application. YMMV.

TL
 
Gentlemen -

Thanks so much for all your input - I now have a pretty good idea what to use and expect. I think I will stick to good, known automotive products and see what happens.
I will bring both wool and foam pads to this picnic and a few different cleaners and see which one works with which combination best and fastest.
I have a Makita 9227c, Flex 3401VRG, and the Porter-Cable 7424-not the new one, so have all types of machines covered.
I had not thought about the max ceiling specs for this aircraft type, so thanks again for pointing this out - I will adjust the LSP if I end up using one accordingly.
But the 1-step idea sounds like really the best way, and you dont have to go back over such a big piece of metal as the wing is alone.
Do either of you guys or anyone else, remember what the rates are for doing an aircraft of this size? Did you guys charge by the hour of a flat rate?
If you want to PM me that is ok too - francodan@comcast.net
Again, you guys are the BEST !
Thanks !!!!!!! Dan F
 
Stokdgs said:
I had not thought about the max ceiling specs for this aircraft type, so thanks again for pointing this out
.
Do either of you guys or anyone else, remember what the rates are for doing an aircraft of this size? Did you guys charge by the hour of a flat rate?
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Yes, my client with the WWII planes is very tall, probally 6'4". So the ceiling should not be a problem :w00t:

I charge $30 an hour for each person working and give my help $15 pr hour.
I'm sure you could probally charge alot more, heck Auto Concierge charges $75pr hour :scared:
 
Not really germaine to furthering the topic here but I just want to say that this thread is worth it's weight in titanium/carbon fiber and proves once again that this is the single best exchange of detailing information on the planet and maybe the Cosmos!!!

Thanks, guys, for proving this point once again. Awesome thread. Almost has me wanting to head over to the airport!
 
Puckman said:
Not really germaine to furthering the topic here but I just want to say that this thread is worth it's weight in titanium/carbon fiber and proves once again that this is the single best exchange of detailing information on the planet and maybe the Cosmos!!!

Thanks, guys, for proving this point once again. Awesome thread. Almost has me wanting to head over to the airport!
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Well, I'm not real good with big/fancy words and at times am a bit niave/gullible, but I think you are giving us a compliment. ;)

So Thank You.....I Guess :o
 
Yes, it was intended to compliment those that have offered good, honest advice to the original request for info.

Translation:

Sorry I can't contribute to the conversion but thanks a bunch to the guys that have.
 
Gentlemen:

Thanks again for your time; I know its a sacrifice to come back to this after working all day and night, tired, and still want to check in and see where this thread has gone.
Everyone's input is needed and appreciated, and along the way we all learn and benefit from each other. Its amazing how the Ultimate Plan from above is so perfectly offered - all we have to do is choose it if we want, and if we do, we are blessed, and those we helped are also blessed, and inspired to go out and do more of the same.
Talk about "paying it forward" !

You all are just an awsome bunch, I hope this website stays up forever, so our kids and grandkids can see that there are really great people out there; total strangers so to speak, that willingly give their time to others they hardly know except for this website.

Please know that I will be there for any of you especially if you ever find yourselves at Sea-Tac Airport, and its a cold, rainy day or night...

Thanks and Merry Christmas to you and yours !!!!!
Dan F
 
Stokdgs said:
Do either of you guys or anyone else, remember what the rates are for doing an aircraft of this size? Did you guys charge by the hour of a flat rate?
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I don't recall what I charged. My main motivation was that most of the aircraft I did looked like crap and I was the one flying 'em. Plus I was using 'em as guinea pigs to learn how to use a rotary. Wide expanses of sheetmetal with hard paint and few nooks and crannies.... good candidate for experimentation with little fear of screwing anything up.

Stokdgs said:
Please know that I will be there for any of you especially if you ever find yourselves at Sea-Tac Airport, and its a cold, rainy day or night...
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I get out around the Sound every other year or so on motorcycle trips.. usually on the west side away from the horrendous traffic! For my money the best restaurant around is Big Bubba's Burgers on Rt 3 in Allyn :thumbup: That and the little roadside Indian shacks peddling smoked salmon up on the peninsula. :drool5: YUM!

You sure have interesting weather out there.... sweltering heat & gail force winds coming over the mountain near Ellensburg then sleet and 40 degrees over Snoqualmie Pass. In the same day! If you don't like the weather just wait 5 minutes, it'll change...

Got a friend that does Unix IT work that lives in Bellevue, used to own an Ercoupe. Next time I get in the neighborhood I'll give a shout.

Thanks and Merry Christmas to you and yours !!!!!
Dan F
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Right back atcha.... TL
 
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