Another versus thread

ShakingHorizons

ShakingHorizons

New member
Another versus/help thread

Long time listener, first time caller here.

I have been detailing cars since 1995 as a hobby and worked in the business over a summer in 2008. I have always wanted to get in to machine polishing with a DA but with the amount of options on the market, it makes my head spin. I used a DA commercially in '08, but was literally handed a machine with a pad and product and shown how to use it quickly. I have no idea what the machine was or what brand pad I used, but it worked well - at least well enough for a novice like myself.

Since then I have done everything by hand - but I have come to the realization that I need to add a DA into my arsenal for true scratch removal - and I also believe the saying is true "there is nothing like a DA polished car".

So, with that being said, I have narrowed down the machines I am considering -

1) Rupes LHR15
2) Torq 10FX
3) Porter Cable 7424XP

I don't have unlimited funds, but I don't want to have to buy the same thing twice. I am leaning heavily towards the Rupes, mainly due to the brand recognition, which I shouldn't be doing. I am also limited to purchasing only one machine :(.

I have also narrowed down pads - either Meguiar's or Lake Country.

I only detail about 6 vehicles a year, 2 of them being mine, so I still consider it to be a hobby.

Thoughts, comments, and opinions please!

Previous vehicles -

20a42kx.jpg

30dh2rm.jpg

2uj445f.jpg
 
1) Rupes LHR15 - I own this and love it but I need to use other DAs to finish a whole car. If you are getting only one DA, I do not recommend it
2) Torq 10FX - I do not own this but I have not heard a lot praise for this polisher
3) Porter Cable 7424XP - this one is inexpensive in my books and might be what you need. There are sections and panels where one size pad is not enough to finish polishing a car. However, you can purchase bigger/small backing plate for the PC compared to Rupes 15/Torq which do not have backing plate options.

Is your goal to polish a whole car or remove scratches from small sections like a fender bender? Maybe a Harbor Freight DA on sale is better suited for your needs (I think its $50 or so on sale with coupons?)


 
Zelfiris gave great advice. I'd also recommend the Meguiar's MT300 with 3" and 5" backing plates. One Machine, versatile, smooth.
 
Buy the Rupes, but I think most here will tell you to get the 21mm throw, rather than the 15mm, but buy the 5" backing plate that fits both the 21mm AND 15mm. The 5" diameter pads are easier to control for the hobbyist who may not use the machine on a frequent basis.

That said, I think the Torq 10X may be a better "value" for you if you are limited on funds.

I would stick to Lake Country Pads, but the Meg's pads are designed for use with their compounds and polishes IF you are going with or sticking to Meg's consumer/professional/detailing lines of compounds and polishes.

I will tell you that 3D has some new polishes and compounds that may be worth looking into for your new machine. I have Meg's M101 (old version) that dusts like crazy (which I HATE) and M205 that works very well for light polishing, but its "trade-secret-oils" (TSOs) used for abrasive lubrication require removal by an iso-propyl alcohol (IPA) wipe down to be compatible with the Collinite waxes I prefer, or it will haze/cloud on dark colored vehicles (in my experience).
Like you, my meager monetary means necessitates the use of detailing products on-hand until I use them up and move on to the next-best cost-effective product(s) available.

The photos of previous vehicles are representative of your better-than-most detailing abilities. The lower/second one look like an F-Sport Lexus!
 
1) Rupes LHR15--Good choice, but have you looked at the new Griot's BOSS G15--some nice improvements over the Rupes and a better warranty.
2) Torq 10FX--Same coment as above--customer service seems to also be an issue.
3) Porter Cable 7424XP--If you're considering a standard short throw DA then you might want to look at the Griot's 8mm throw DA--only about $10 more--has allot more torque/power and a lifetime warranty--much more capable.

I've stuck with Griot's because of the warranty (have a standard DA and a G15 on order)--I'm in the same boat as you--only do my own cars and from time to time a friend or relative's--don't want to be faced with a repair bill three or four years down the road after only using the polisher a few times per year if something should go wrong.

Also, keep in mind that the Rupes 15 or the Griot's G15 can't be used with a smaller backing plate and you will need something for the tighter areas of the car like bumpers etc--The Griot's standard 8mm throw DA will accept 6", 5", 3.5" and 3" backing plates for allot of flexibility. If you go the 15 route you could always pick up a Harbor Frieght DA for $50 and use it with a 3 or 3.5" backing plate for the small bits.

Take a look at the HD polishes--very effective, little dust if any, long working time, easy wipe off, beginner friendly.

Consider Buff & Shine flat pads--very durable and have a recessed Velcro for an added margin of safety.
 
Thanks for your post - the pics are beautiful ! I love the IS-F Lexus ! You have done some great work by hand here !

If you used a D/A for a year with No training or supervision from someone very experienced, you had your work cut out for you..

I only use a D/A for cleaning glass, moon roof glass, etc., and never for correction.

If I were going to pick 1 machine to deal with correction, it would be the Griot's D/A which from what I hear, has more power, rotation, and used to have, or possibly still has a lifetime warranty..
It is much less expensive as well..

After over a decade of Detailing Forums, I find that there is a new machine, product, pad, etc., coming out almost every year that claims to re-invent the wheel and all that stuff..
Then, after a couple years, those things just start fading away, and with them, the support, etc., that was there at the beginning..

Only a few machines, for example, are still around after a long, long, time, and those are Rotary machines, and the Porter Cable, which was really a Sander, and the Griot's version of the D/A, and the Flex 3401VRG which after all these years are still here and being used by a lot of Detailers..

If you have any problems with carpal tunnel, or your wrists, etc., any of these machines except the Rupes, are going to vibrate and could cause issues..

To achieve good correction at the level a D/A can accomplish, requires it to run at or about full speed, so there is a lot of vibration going on and you have to also control the machine wanting to move to the right all the time.
The Flex 3401VRG will want to move to the left, because it rotates counter clockwise..

For the casual user, I think the Griot machine may be a contender that has been around a lot of years and is still there, and has more power than the Porter Cable..

Perhaps you can find someone close by that can let you try one or more of your short list ??
Good luck !
Dan F
 
The Harbor Freight DA is a great little machine especially if you are just getting into machine polishing and purchasing your first machine. You could buy a 5" backing plate and a 3.5" backing plate along with a great assortment of of 4 and 5.5 inch pads for about half the price of just the Rupes machine. I am not knocking the Rupes as it has been proven to be a great machine. With the limited amount of vehicles that you are doing in a year I would definitely give the HF a hard look.

I own a detailing business and have a PC7424 and a Flex 3401 and a couple of the Harbor Freight DA's. I hardly ever even use the PC7424 any more. Most of the time I reach for my HF. It has more power than the 7424 and has been extremely durable. I have a lot of hours on mine and its still going strong. If I need some really serious correction I will reach for my Flex as it is the most powerful of my polishers and will correct at a faster pace but the HF works fine under most circumstances and can still do some pretty serious correction on its own especially with microfiber cutting pads.

There are many people out there who will knock this polisher because it isn,t a name brand and it doesn't cost "an arm and a leg". I to was a little skeptical when I bought my first one. Not anymore. The machine has more than proven its worth to me and to many others who do this for a living. Its a lot of "bang" for the buck.
 
Based on the 3 units you listed, the PCXP is what I would suggest. As someone else already pointed out, large throw machines will always require the addition of a standard 8mm tool to do all the 3" and 4" work. That being said, the PCXP is significantly under powered compared to some of it's competitors. In the same price point you'd be better off with a G110v2, Griot's GG6, or the HF DA tool. The MT300 would be a good option as well, but it is almost twice the cost of the others.

I spent a few minutes with the Torx and IMO it shouldn't even be a consideration.


For pads, I'm a big fan of the new Megs foam discs.
 
The HF DA is a decent machine. I've used my brothers a few times and it's pretty good. I have a PC7424XP and I use it with 3" and 4" pads. I use the Meguiar's MT300 and their new foam discs. It's a good machine for us weekend warriors.
 
Zelfiris said:
1) Rupes LHR15 - I own this and love it but I need to use other DAs to finish a whole car. If you are getting only one DA, I do not recommend it
2) Torq 10FX - I do not own this but I have not heard a lot praise for this polisher
3) Porter Cable 7424XP - this one is inexpensive in my books and might be what you need. There are sections and panels where one size pad is not enough to finish polishing a car. However, you can purchase bigger/small backing plate for the PC compared to Rupes 15/Torq which do not have backing plate options.

Is your goal to polish a whole car or remove scratches from small sections like a fender bender? Maybe a Harbor Freight DA on sale is better suited for your needs (I think its $50 or so on sale with coupons?)
Click to expand...

My goal is to polish an entire car with minimal correction. I don't take on jobs that require major correction, as I don't trust myself with them.

Lonnie said:
Buy the Rupes, but I think most here will tell you to get the 21mm throw, rather than the 15mm, but buy the 5" backing plate that fits both the 21mm AND 15mm. The 5" diameter pads are easier to control for the hobbyist who may not use the machine on a frequent basis.

That said, I think the Torq 10X may be a better "value" for you if you are limited on funds.

I would stick to Lake Country Pads, but the Meg's pads are designed for use with their compounds and polishes IF you are going with or sticking to Meg's consumer/professional/detailing lines of compounds and polishes.

I will tell you that 3D has some new polishes and compounds that may be worth looking into for your new machine. I have Meg's M101 (old version) that dusts like crazy (which I HATE) and M205 that works very well for light polishing, but its "trade-secret-oils" (TSOs) used for abrasive lubrication require removal by an iso-propyl alcohol (IPA) wipe down to be compatible with the Collinite waxes I prefer, or it will haze/cloud on dark colored vehicles (in my experience).
Like you, my meager monetary means necessitates the use of detailing products on-hand until I use them up and move on to the next-best cost-effective product(s) available.

The photos of previous vehicles are representative of your better-than-most detailing abilities. The lower/second one look like an F-Sport Lexus!
Click to expand...

Thank you for the compliments! The first picture was my toy 2000 Grand Am GT (black), the second picture is a 2008 Lexus IS250 (white), and the last picture is a 2009 Lexus ISF (white).

pwaug said:
1) Rupes LHR15--Good choice, but have you looked at the new Griot's BOSS G15--some nice improvements over the Rupes and a better warranty.
2) Torq 10FX--Same coment as above--customer service seems to also be an issue.
3) Porter Cable 7424XP--If you're considering a standard short throw DA then you might want to look at the Griot's 8mm throw DA--only about $10 more--has allot more torque/power and a lifetime warranty--much more capable.

I've stuck with Griot's because of the warranty (have a standard DA and a G15 on order)--I'm in the same boat as you--only do my own cars and from time to time a friend or relative's--don't want to be faced with a repair bill three or four years down the road after only using the polisher a few times per year if something should go wrong.

Also, keep in mind that the Rupes 15 or the Griot's G15 can't be used with a smaller backing plate and you will need something for the tighter areas of the car like bumpers etc--The Griot's standard 8mm throw DA will accept 6", 5", 3.5" and 3" backing plates for allot of flexibility. If you go the 15 route you could always pick up a Harbor Frieght DA for $50 and use it with a 3 or 3.5" backing plate for the small bits.

Take a look at the HD polishes--very effective, little dust if any, long working time, easy wipe off, beginner friendly.

Consider Buff & Shine flat pads--very durable and have a recessed Velcro for an added margin of safety.
Click to expand...

I will give a hard look at the HF model, as I could spend more money on quality pads. I have looked at the Griot's machines, but didn't realize they have a lifetime warranty. Also, thank you for the polish/pad suggestions!



Stokdgs said:
Thanks for your post - the pics are beautiful ! I love the IS-F Lexus ! You have done some great work by hand here !

If you used a D/A for a year with No training or supervision from someone very experienced, you had your work cut out for you..

I only use a D/A for cleaning glass, moon roof glass, etc., and never for correction.

If I were going to pick 1 machine to deal with correction, it would be the Griot's D/A which from what I hear, has more power, rotation, and used to have, or possibly still has a lifetime warranty..
It is much less expensive as well..

After over a decade of Detailing Forums, I find that there is a new machine, product, pad, etc., coming out almost every year that claims to re-invent the wheel and all that stuff..
Then, after a couple years, those things just start fading away, and with them, the support, etc., that was there at the beginning..

Only a few machines, for example, are still around after a long, long, time, and those are Rotary machines, and the Porter Cable, which was really a Sander, and the Griot's version of the D/A, and the Flex 3401VRG which after all these years are still here and being used by a lot of Detailers..

If you have any problems with carpal tunnel, or your wrists, etc., any of these machines except the Rupes, are going to vibrate and could cause issues..

To achieve good correction at the level a D/A can accomplish, requires it to run at or about full speed, so there is a lot of vibration going on and you have to also control the machine wanting to move to the right all the time.
The Flex 3401VRG will want to move to the left, because it rotates counter clockwise..

For the casual user, I think the Griot machine may be a contender that has been around a lot of years and is still there, and has more power than the Porter Cable..

Perhaps you can find someone close by that can let you try one or more of your short list ??
Good luck !
Dan F
Click to expand...

I would love to try out some different machines locally, but I don't know where to even start looking. I am in Denver, CO. The more I look at Griot's, they look awesome!

bswombaugh said:
The Harbor Freight DA is a great little machine especially if you are just getting into machine polishing and purchasing your first machine. You could buy a 5" backing plate and a 3.5" backing plate along with a great assortment of of 4 and 5.5 inch pads for about half the price of just the Rupes machine. I am not knocking the Rupes as it has been proven to be a great machine. With the limited amount of vehicles that you are doing in a year I would definitely give the HF a hard look.

I own a detailing business and have a PC7424 and a Flex 3401 and a couple of the Harbor Freight DA's. I hardly ever even use the PC7424 any more. Most of the time I reach for my HF. It has more power than the 7424 and has been extremely durable. I have a lot of hours on mine and its still going strong. If I need some really serious correction I will reach for my Flex as it is the most powerful of my polishers and will correct at a faster pace but the HF works fine under most circumstances and can still do some pretty serious correction on its own especially with microfiber cutting pads.

There are many people out there who will knock this polisher because it isn,t a name brand and it doesn't cost "an arm and a leg". I to was a little skeptical when I bought my first one. Not anymore. The machine has more than proven its worth to me and to many others who do this for a living. Its a lot of "bang" for the buck.
Click to expand...

At the end of the day, I could care less about brand name, and more about dependability and ease of use. I will look in to it more!

RaskyR1 said:
Based on the 3 units you listed, the PCXP is what I would suggest. As someone else already pointed out, large throw machines will always require the addition of a standard 8mm tool to do all the 3" and 4" work. That being said, the PCXP is significantly under powered compared to some of it's competitors. In the same price point you'd be better off with a G110v2, Griot's GG6, or the HF DA tool. The MT300 would be a good option as well, but it is almost twice the cost of the others.

I spent a few minutes with the Torx and IMO it shouldn't even be a consideration.


For pads, I'm a big fan of the new Megs foam discs.
Click to expand...

Looks like the MT300 is the updated version of the G110v2, and much more expensive. I may have to go with the HF DA Tool, and the GG3.




EDIT - With everything being taken in to consideration, I have narrowed it down to the HF DA or the GG6. Both tools seem to accept 5" and 3.5" backing plates, which unless I am completely missing something, seem to be the best "All In One" tool.
 
Smart choice. I have the HF based on Garry Dean's recommendation and I'm glad I did. It works great and has more power than a PC. With some quality pads and good polish/compound you will be able to correct "just about" anything. I've had mine for well over a year and not one hiccup. And did I mention that I only paid $55 total after using a 20% coupon. Do a couple of the HF D/A mods (better lube/moving switch) and you have one great little machine for under $60. Not knocking the other machines...I've had a PC7424 and have a Zentool (pretty much a Rupes21 with more power) and usually use my HF for most jobs. Why use the stronger machine if it's not needed. Especially in your case where you stated you won't be doing heavy correcting. If you are primarily going to be doing light marring correction a HF D/A will more than adequately suffice. Do the performance mods (less than 15 mins) and the machine will work even better.

Yet again...just my $.02
 
52split said:
Smart choice. I have the HF based on Garry Dean's recommendation and I'm glad I did. It works great and has more power than a PC. With some quality pads and good polish/compound you will be able to correct "just about" anything. I've had mine for well over a year and not one hiccup. And did I mention that I only paid $55 total after using a 20% coupon. Do a couple of the HF D/A mods (better lube/moving switch) and you have one great little machine for under $60. Not knocking the other machines...I've had a PC7424 and have a Zentool (pretty much a Rupes21 with more power) and usually use my HF for most jobs. Why use the stronger machine if it's not needed. Especially in your case where you stated you won't be doing heavy correcting. If you are primarily going to be doing light marring correction a HF D/A will more than adequately suffice. Do the performance mods (less than 15 mins) and the machine will work even better.

Yet again...just my $.02
Click to expand...

I ended up ordering a brand new GG6 for under $100 last night, I figured the warranty was worth the little extra coin.
 
52split said:
Like every company now is going...a Rupes copy but with more power. A win win.
Click to expand...
I don't consider replicating someones design a win personally.

Surprised no one mentioned the Rupes Duetto. It's a great all around machine. I'd take that over the PC and Griots.

No experience with the other mentioned machines.
 
ShakingHorizons said:
I ended up ordering a brand new GG6 for under $100 last night, I figured the warranty was worth the little extra coin.
Click to expand...

You will not regret that decision in any way. I have several other tools and love my GG6. It's versatile enough to use 3,4,5.5, and even 6.5 pads with appropriate backing plates, and has more than enough power. Best machine to have if you only have one machine.
 
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