Ammo Skin VS Traditional Sealants, Topping Coatings, Winter Protection

A

Astouffer512

Member
So the title of this thread is confusing I am sure but let me try to explain what I am thinking here.

Unless I am completely mistaken the main purpose of any LSP is to protect the vehicle’s clear coat from degradation from various forms. As of now most agree a ceramic / Graphene coating is the upper echelon of the LSP genre. (Some may debate this, but for the purposes of this discussion leave that alone and stay on the topic)

I have one layer of a ceramic coating on my vehicle. (Again for purposes of this discussion brand isn’t important....just the fact that there is a coating there will suffice). So my CC is now upper echelon protected. I probably will add a second coat soon after during a second wash in the paint. Is this necessary for the layering of the coating?.....maybe not, but it’s my car and I want to.

So come November here in Central Pennsylvania I know have the extreme upper echelon of a vehicle with 2 layers of a ceramic coating protecting the CC. What if I want to now just protect the ceramic coating? So I do some digging and come across Larry from Ammo NYC talking about his product Ammo Skin. His process is to lay down a layer of his “base coat” Reflex, top that with Skin, maintain that with Reboot, and Hydrate after every wash. It appears he also recommends re applying a layer of skin every few months.

Now I do not necessarily believe in the layering concept; so this got me thinking why not just top my coating for the winter with something like powerlock? After all isn’t it supposed to be good for at least 6 months? But then I got to thinking is this the reason there is some land basting of Larry and his products? He does say he wants products to be effective yet safe. Is there such a thing as a sealant lite product? It appears that really this is what Ammo Skin is? So if it actually is a sealant lite product does that mean Larry is just one of those guys who loves to just always have his car appearing with a fresh LSP? Isn’t that the goal of all of us....we put all this work into having our paint in as perfect of condition as we can attain....whether his products to are too expensive for what they are isn’t that important, but it does make me think....

The point of this whole ramble I guess has changed from my beginning point, if there ever was a point. Will a sealant “mask” my coating?.....yeah probably, but wouldn’t it be nice to come into spring with a well maintained coating that I can do a good decon wash on and refresh.






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I read article from soft 99 they had a good article about the solvents in some sealants and waxes can and will damage or degrade the resins in coatings. ....soft 99 was also trying to sell a hydro wax line.

I was a big fan of p21 wax for the same reasons Before coatings because they seemed to have less harsh solvents. Some guy wrote article perfect shine that’s where I started this. I did this with klasse then topping with p21. I would like to believe layering works.

The solvent issue also made sense to me when reading through different articles.
 
Ammo Skin is a traditional sealant. If you want the best performance just stick with a coating maintenance product.
 
acuRAS82 said:
Interesting post. Subscribing for now until I have anything useful for response.
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My original thought to this thread was I would have a point and a question. As I typed out my thoughts I realized I didn’t potentially have a point at all, but I wanted to put my thoughts out there. I was being very vague on my points for a reason hoping to open up discussion and thoughts from others. So don’t hold back until you have something useful if you don’t want to.

The Guz said:
Ammo Skin is a traditional sealant. If you want the best performance just stick with a coating maintenance product.
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Guz, I agree. I just feel like I’m one of those guys who always wants to be doing something....so I’m wondering if I should have out the coating on. Performance / masking aside....will a sealant (Skin, Powerlock, Beadmaker, etc) add a “layer of protection” to my coating? My gut says yes, but is it worth the effort? My gut says no, but is it wrong to just want to add something for winter?



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Larry creates his products to layer and Skin is designed to be use as a topper for Reflex. Will it work the same on a traditional coating? Question for Larry...


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Astouffer512 said:
Guz, I agree. I just feel like I’m one of those guys who always wants to be doing something....so I’m wondering if I should have out the coating on. Performance / masking aside....will a sealant (Skin, Powerlock, Beadmaker, etc) add a “layer of protection” to my coating? My gut says yes, but is it worth the effort? My gut says no, but is it wrong to just want to add something for winter?

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Things just stick less to a coating than a traditional sealant or even a wax. Putting one of those over a coating does not go against the rules but one will notice how less clean it appears to get compared to just the coating. I am not telling you not to do it just letting you know what I experienced. It also depends on where one is located to prep for winter.
 
I love Ammo products but I can’t get into the concept of that many layers. In my opinion an LSP should be just that, the last-step product.
 
Layering is a topic where IME you just can`t generalize. Unlikely-to-work combos sometimes work great, oughta-work combos don`t. IMO you find out for yourself, if only because application technique and [all sorts of variables] can factor in.

But I gotta say that when I read Astouffer512`s post I thought to myself "that`s a lot more upkeep than I`d ever put up with, let alone for a COATING"; I wouldn`t want to do all that with a conventional LSP!
 
Good points, and I guess I`m a bit of a hypocrite because I put spray wax/sealants over AIO`s all the time and don`t think twice of it. I also understand you can layer something like KSG (which I personally have never used) to great effect.

My beef is with the concept that you`re building "layers of armor" or something to that effect by "stacking" different products. I simply think these layers are too thin to make any functional difference and also, if/when you finally go to polish you`re really going to remove all the layers as you remove any defects so what is the point?

If you listen between the lines of his Reflex Pro video I think he implies you can let it ride for a year on its own.
 
DetailZeus said:
Good points, and I guess I`m a bit of a hypocrite because I put spray wax/sealants over AIO`s all the time and don`t think twice of it. I also understand you can layer something like KSG (which I personally have never used) to great effect.

My beef is with the concept that you`re building "layers of armor" or something to that effect by "stacking" different products. I simply think these layers are too thin to make any functional difference and also, if/when you finally go to polish you`re really going to remove all the layers as you remove any defects so what is the point?

If you listen between the lines of his Reflex Pro video I think he implies you can let it ride for a year on its own.
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I think your right. Protection wise i agree with Guz and why stack a lesser quality protection on top of a better one. Some manufacturers lead you to believe your just adding sio2 to the base protection.

I do it purely for the enjoyment and gloss/shine it adds. I use sio2 toppers in hopes the adhere a little better and last longer than a wax would


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DetailZeus- IME a little carefully controlled testing will show whether there are any functional (durability/etc.) benefits from the layering. I sure wouldn`t do it were there *not* ;)

Heh heh, sometimes the results of that testing can really surprise ya...or at least it can surprise me. E.g., layering an *AIO that contains any cleaners let alone abrasives*?!? Doesn`t that *seem* utterly impossible? Heh heh, don`t bet your life on it not working ;)

As for the polishing, yeah...that`ll undo all that work PDQ all right! Whether that`s a factor to consider will simply be subjective; THIS subject doesn`t polish for years, but others here seem to do it frequently. But of course, that sometimes bites me, and since spot-correction is sometimes necessary, it`s one reason I`ve held off on coatings. [Ticked] me off badly enough when I had to redo many layers of KSG, and was one more reason I switched to the FK1000P.
 
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