Abrasive Isolation: Dual Action Polishing by Barry Theal

So you're saying move the polisher even slower than the traditional "one inch per second"??  Would this also apply to the use of polishes???
 
Pwaug-


 


Try the technique Mr. Theal presented. You will be will be VERY surprised how well it works.   A good friend and one whom I consider a mentor displayed the same thing to me... it was night and day!


 


I had to change my mindset a little... working with M105/ M100 I would get in one section pass (maybe two at most) and the products were done.  BUT the finish and the removal of defects were both remarkable. I have also experienced less dusting with proper externalities (good weather and good ambient temp.)


 


It's the ironic saying that applies here... work slower to work faster/ smarter.


 


Regarding polishes/ polishing... my mentor pointed out that the you can work the polishing step faster than the compounding technique being described in this thread... if you are not 'jeweling'.  However, I defer proper polishing technique to other's more experienced.  


 


The above are just my experiences with the technique Mr. Theal explains in the video.


 


Best regards,


-Dellinger
 
Good video Barry.


 


Abrasive Isolation is a great phrase. I like to view the leading edge of my pad as the starting point and the rear edge as the end point for a products workability. The heavier the corrective product the longer it typically takes as you've shown. Once folks start paying attention to how products talk to them as they work them they stop viewing using a machine as a step a, step b, step c process and more of a dynamic process that requires more time the better their results will get.
 
I would much rather make 1-2 extremely slow arm speed passes over a section then 3, 4 or 5 passes at medium speed. This works excellent and everyone should try it and see 1st hand how well it works. Big thanks to Barry for putting this onto paper/video. 
 
pwaug said:
So you're saying move the polisher even slower than the traditional "one inch per second"??  Would this also apply to the use of polishes???
Click to expand...


 


 


His movement was about 1"/sec.  Assuming the pass was 18" he took 25 seconds moving to his right and just under 20 seconds on the return. Just slightly slower.


 


 


Barry, 


 


It would seem, theoretically, that moving twice that speed but making double the passes would result in the same amount of abrasion.  Just curious to hear your thoughts.  Does the theory change at all when working with DAT products vs. SMAT?


 


For the record I personally choose to move slowly, ~1"/sec, for three reasons:


 


1.  Better able to see the progress being made by comparing the leading edge to the trailing edge.  Multiple fast passes does not give that contrast.


2.  I tend to get a longer working time from polishes since they are not left in a thin layer on the paint exposed to air to dry out.


3.  Easier to keep the pad flat since I use body movement more than arm movement, the latter of which increases likelihood of tilting.
 
Nth Degree said:
His movement was about 1"/sec.  Assuming the pass was 18" he took 25 seconds moving to his right and just under 20 seconds on the return. Just slightly slower.


 


 


Barry, 


 


It would seem, theoretically, that moving twice that speed but making double the passes would result in the same amount of abrasion.  Just curious to hear your thoughts.  Does the theory change at all when working with DAT products vs. SMAT?


 


For the record I personally choose to move slowly, ~1"/sec, for three reasons:


 


1.  Better able to see the progress being made by comparing the leading edge to the trailing edge.  Multiple fast passes does not give that contrast.


2.  I tend to get a longer working time from polishes since they are not left in a thin layer on the paint exposed to air to dry out.


3.  Easier to keep the pad flat since I use body movement more than arm movement, the latter of which increases likelihood of tilting.
Click to expand...


 


These are very good questions and observations... interested in the reply.
 
Hasn't Thomas been saying this for some time??   I seem to remember Tunch even giving him a hard time because he moved the polisher so slow.
 
Nth Degree said:
His movement was about 1"/sec.  Assuming the pass was 18" he took 25 seconds moving to his right and just under 20 seconds on the return. Just slightly slower.


 


 


Barry, 


 


It would seem, theoretically, that moving twice that speed but making double the passes would result in the same amount of abrasion.  Just curious to hear your thoughts.  Does the theory change at all when working with DAT products vs. SMAT?


 


For the record I personally choose to move slowly, ~1"/sec, for three reasons:


 


1.  Better able to see the progress being made by comparing the leading edge to the trailing edge.  Multiple fast passes does not give that contrast.


2.  I tend to get a longer working time from polishes since they are not left in a thin layer on the paint exposed to air to dry out.


3.  Easier to keep the pad flat since I use body movement more than arm movement, the latter of which increases likelihood of tilting.
Click to expand...


 


I feel the slower you go, the more concentrated, efficient AND effective the abrasives are able to do their job properly. 


 


I don't think you can balance out the equation the way you suggested? 1 pass that takes you 30 seconds compared to 15 passes that takes you 2 seconds each will not give you the same results. The abrasives skim across the surface too quickly. 


 


 
pwaug said:
Hasn't Thomas been saying this for some time??   I seem to remember Tunch even giving him a hard time because he moved the polisher so slow.
Click to expand...


I think many people have been preaching slow arm speed for a while. Barry is the 1st to actually put this idea in an isolated article  B) . 
 
David Fermani said:
<span style="font-size:12px;">I don't think you can balance out the equation the way you suggested? 1 pass that takes you 30 seconds compared to 15 passes that takes you 2 seconds each will not give you the same results. The abrasives skim across the surface too quickly. 


 
Click to expand...


 


That's a little extreme on the example but even with that fast of arm speed it is relatively insignificant compared to the speed of the machine. 
 
pwaug said:
Hasn't Thomas been saying this for some time??   I seem to remember Tunch even giving him a hard time because he moved the polisher so slow.
Click to expand...


 


Yes, he would get "pissed" - he didn't want to hear my explanation :D


 


Thank god for Barry Theal, for paving the way.  -_-  <_<  :unsure:  :wacko:  :blink:  :ph34r:  :)  :D  :lol:
 
LeMarque said:
A bit of topic ...


 


No priming the pad? The pad kinda looked similar to the B&S MF cutting pad.
Click to expand...


Nope. WIth the HD polishing compounds you only need a few drops. The lubricants will disperse the abrasives without any issues. 


 


And yes, that's the exact pad Barry was using. Great pad btw...
 
First off, Thanks to soulkeeper for the little bump.


That bump brought this thread to my attention,


 


 


 


and boy did I need it!


 


Second, thanks to Barry for putting together this video for us.


It is a highly informative description of Abrasive Isolation.


 


I definitely love that term.  This term will come in handy tomorrow, when I get to


polish a very expensive car.  While he has seen me do a quick polish, I get to ask


him how "buttery" that he wants his paint.  If he says that he wants the best, then


I will describe "Abrasive Isolation", and how it takes a little bit more time.  When he


okays the extra time, I will be set up to succeed and give him a superior product.


 


I also love the Analogy of a plate with marbles.  This is very easy to visualize how


these abrasives work under the pad.  I was always a faster mover, and I feel that this


will help me be more efficient.  As David said, 1 quality pass versus 3 or 4 other passes.


This can help to lower arm and back fatigue, which is important in this industry. 


 


Quality Video.  It definitely deserves a spot in the Detailing Forum, where it will get more eyes,


ayes, and ai!, I'm doing it all wrongs
 
Just wanted to say thanks to Barry for posting this up - I have recently adopted this method and have definitely seen an improvement in my details.


 


Great info to help counteract the natural tendency to want to move the machine too quickly.....
 
Thanks to everyone for all the likes! It means a lot to me. Its always my goal to help someone out whenever time allows. To see so many great responses like this made my day. I don't come around as much on Autopia as I should. Someday hopefully time will allow me to make it happen more. Thanks again.


 


Barry E Theal
 
<span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;">When ever I one step polish my cars there is always some kind of white dust that flies off the pad from the machine. Am I adding to much pressure, product, not enough, etc? What am I doing wrong and if I wipe the dust off will it scratch the paint? It happened most on panel gaps, panel bents ( the body of the car is curved), areas where the pad is not totally on the paint, and curves on the car.
 
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