4 hours labour - What went wrong ?

N

Nick M

New member
Hi guys,



Well the weather was pretty good in the UK yesterday, perfect opportunity to spend some time with the car.



The car still had a trace layer of P21S c/w from about 3 weeks ago, but looked rather flat now, so I washed and polished the car, this being only then second time out with the PC - the process was:-



Wash with Meg's GC and dryed with WW

VM with Sonus green pad

Poorboys EX-P with Meg's finishing pad

All products buffed off my hand with MF cloths.



(car is fairly free of defects/swirls so I though this would suffice for now)



After polishing with VM, the paint came up very well, reflective and with a decent amount of gloss, as expected with VM.



I then applied EX-P over the VM with no problems, but left the EX-P on the paint for the time it took me to apply it, going round the car. It was then all buffed off with a MF cloth and it removed very easily.



I then stood back and was a little disappointed with the results, the paint seemed to have lost a degree of shine and looked rather 'sterile' :( Not what I was expecting to be honest.



Anyway, 2 hours later after dark, the mist came in and covered the car with a layer of damp/moisture and the looked totally matt against the street lights - a quick drive around and the damp on the car had gone, after this drive round, the car looked better under the bright petrol station lights.



This morning, the car has dryed off again (after light rain) and looks like it did after buffing the sealant off, but the surface is definately lacking in slickness (unlike that of a carnauba) and here is the problem. If I glide the back of my hand over the paint, there is a smudge, like there is still product there to buff off, very strange, as I made sure the car was fully wiped over after the sealant - this leads me to belive that there is a bonding issue with the EX-P :confused:.



I thought that the process of using VM together with the PC would have cleaned and removed any old layer of wax - the paint was squeeky clean after applying it.



Or there could be a problem with my EX-P not bonding properly over VM, but I 'veread that other users have not encountered this :nixweiss.



Would anybody be kind as to maybe suggest where I went wrong :o



Thanks for reading this rather long post, but it's my first 'own' thread.



Cheers



Nick :xyxthumbs
 
Ive never used either, but i would put on another coat of EX-p and see what happens.





Also, did you shake the EX=-p? Im not sure if it seperates?



Try some EX_P on your drivers door window and see if it is slick.



About all i know about trouble shooting for this.
 
ive never been disappointed with the VM/EXP combo. I did notice in your regimen you didnt clay, why? did you notice any slickness after VM you should have. If you applied the EXP too thick that may be the problem. Id try misting it down with some QD spray and re applying it. I applied it yesterday with an app and had some smearing trouble. When i apply it with the PC it comes off very easy.
 
Hmmmm, thanks for your suggestions.



Yes, there was a degree of slickness after the VM. The reason for no clay was that this process was done about four weeks ago.



Thing with clay is that I never know how often to carry that step out, so I was planning on claying every 2-3 months or so, maybe thats too long intervals?



Regarding EX-P appliation, I applied 3 small blobs around the perimeter of the pad and did that for each panel and for each half of the hood. Having never used EX-P before, I was unsure as to the amount to use. The amount I used 'felt' about right, went on ok and came off easily too, easier than CMW and P21s.



Will try a bit of S+G qd on it now, see how it fairs.



:)
 
If you clayed four weeks ago, then you really shouldn't need to do it again. Spot clay at the most. Once every 2-3 months should be fine, but there is certainly no rule of thumb. If you feel like claying then do it, you can't go wrong.



As far as VM + EX-P, I've never had a problem. There have been a few discussions lately concerning the oil in VM possilbly having a negative effect on durability when topped by a sealant, but certainly nothing to the extreme as to what you are experiencing. It almost sounds to me like there was just too much humidity for the sealant to dry or cure correctly.



Have you re-washed the car yet? If not, I'd wait for a good dry and sunny day and re-apply your EX-P one more time.



You didn't mention anything about the process so I am going to assume you worked the VM on speed 5 or 6? If not, you should. This is a crucial step because this determines your overall shine.



Then applying EX-P, the PC shouldn't be on any speed faster than 4 and doesn't get worked in, just applied.
 
Ah yes, VM was spread out on speed 3, then worked in at speed 5 until ready to buff off.



EX-P was applied only and spread out evenly over each panel on speed 3 once again.



I have just gone out and gone over the car with QD (Spray & Gloss to be exact) as suggested above and this seems to have removed the 'smudged residue' that was still on the car and brought back a more than happy shine.



Temperature here yesterday was 19 C (66 F) and dry, although damp set in about 1 1/2 hours after the sealant was buffed off.



There is definately a science to successful detailing :D
 
Maybe another coat of EX-P?



I know from experieince that Klasse SG looks much better with additional coats. Well up to 3 or 4, anyway.
 
NIck I had exactly the same problem with the same regimen and products. The EX-P when applied 'flattened' the finish, and I too was dissapointed. I guess perhaps that it may be a humidity problem as suggested above. It could also be that we applied the product too thick, but like you I didn't enjoy the final experience like I thought I might.



On a side note, I did notice that VM looked very slick before I added the Ex-P, and like you I didn't clay my car it was smooth as glass anyhow so it didn't need it.



Sorry I don't have a solution for you, but I will be interested in this thread should one arise. :)



Interestingly, I just re-read JDookie's post, and that could have been the problem for me too, I don't recall 'making sure I set the PC to particular speeds' for either product, so I will try that next time.
 
No problem Axe, thanks for your input - I guess thats the thing about starting out detailing - trial and error and learning by mistakes and other peoples suggestions/experience.



Just been out in the car and under the sodium street lights, the silver metalic really jumps out the paint, so I guess I did something right :p



Oh, and with EX-P, I made sure that I spritzed a little QD on the pad before I started and occasionally in-between, apparently makes application easier.



Will see if I can apply another coat tomorrow, but seeing the weather forecast, highly unklikely :(



Ah well, its a four day week this week, makes the weekend ever closer :xyxthumbs
 
I thought I did something wrong, but at least I'm not the only one.

I just got some of the new EX-P+. I've never used any other PB sealant before this.

I put 2 fresh layers of NXT a week ago and was quite happy with the look. I also have #16 on the roof, bonnet and boot. After a wash last night, I applied EX-P+ on the sides. Left it for 30 minutes and wiped off. On and off by hand with MF.

Side by side comparison to EX-P+ on top of NXT and NXT by itself, I was quite disappointed. The reflection wasn't as clear and deep. Slickness was fine. I had also clayed last week before NXT.

I'm going to try and see what #16 looks like on top of EX-P+, and next month when I've got some time, strip it all off and try AIO topped with EX-P+. I still have high hopes for this product.
 
Nick M said:


Temperature here yesterday was 19 C (66 F) and dry, although damp set in about 1 1/2 hours after the sealant was buffed off.
Click to expand...



That could be your problem. I find I get the best durability from any product, whether it be a sealant or a carnauba if the paint stays dry for a full 24 hours.



I've also noticed most products don't have their best look until 24 hours later when fully cured.



I used EX-P+ on a silver minivan over Red Machine Glaze and it had a clear, wet look. It isn't going to add depth like EX does.
 
Yeh agree with scottwax, I buffed off EX then came out the next morning and it really looked different than before.



Try it again, if that doesnt work try topping a section with a wax, as I do know ex-p is slightly similar to zaino in the way it can look sterile with no real depth.
 
Scottwax said:
That could be your problem. I find I get the best durability from any product, whether it be a sealant or a carnauba if the paint stays dry for a full 24 hours.



I've also noticed most products don't have their best look until 24 hours later when fully cured.



I used EX-P+ on a silver minivan over Red Machine Glaze and it had a clear, wet look. It isn't going to add depth like EX does.
Click to expand...



Mmmm yes, keeping the paint dry in the UK for 24 hours on a car thats left outside is going to be difficult. Probably unlikely until the early summer months as we tend to get damp, and often rainy nights in the spring time. I guess a garage is the answer, or wait for summer! :)
 
I've never had a problem with the VM/EXP combo - but then I only went through a spell of using it last summer, so obviously the weather was much warmer and dryer than it is at this time of year.



Nick, the colour of your car is pretty similar to my Peugeot and I've yet to find a combo better than AIO/UPP... maybe worth a try if you're not totally happy with the VM/EXP look.
 
Nick, what others have said on this forum is consistant with what I hear on other forums and with phone calls too. Sealants , at least EX-P, should stay dry for 24-36 hours after application to get the most out of them...I'm sure the dampness setting in an hour or so after you finished had a lot to do with the smearing you saw. Another idea is that since you are dealing with environmental aspects, is that you do it in the morning on a sunny day..that should give it enough time to begin it's curing.

As for process, the pad should be dampened ONLY with water, not QD's...QD's have other chemicals in them that might cause a reaction between them, make a thin circle around the pad so that there is product everywhere the pad comes into contact with the surface and i prefer a speed of no more than 3, as you are only trying to spread it, not work it in. Hope this helps:)

ps..as pugoman said above, not everyone will like the looks of every combo on their car, and youmight have to search around until you find the combo that you like best.
 
Poorboy said:
Nick, what others have said on this forum is consistant with what I hear on other forums and with phone calls too. Sealants , at least EX-P, should stay dry for 24-36 hours after application to get the most out of them...I'm sure the dampness setting in an hour or so after you finished had a lot to do with the smearing you saw. Another idea is that since you are dealing with environmental aspects, is that you do it in the morning on a sunny day..that should give it enough time to begin it's curing.

As for process, the pad should be dampened ONLY with water, not QD's...QD's have other chemicals in them that might cause a reaction between them, make a thin circle around the pad so that there is product everywhere the pad comes into contact with the surface and i prefer a speed of no more than 3, as you are only trying to spread it, not work it in. Hope this helps:)

ps..as pugoman said above, not everyone will like the looks of every combo on their car, and youmight have to search around until you find the combo that you like best.
Click to expand...

So it has nothing to do with the VM but depends on proper curing (no moisture for 24/36 hrs). Could be tough in my nieghborhood if you don't have a garage.
 
Thanks Poorboy for your suggestions, I am now understanding a few of the reasons for what happend.



I have no problems with the product, as I have seen the results on other cars, so I have no doubts that it is a great product, as with the other Poorboy's World products I have.



I have since re-buffed the surface and it has removed the smudges and looks a lot better and beading nicely.



I will give it another go at the weekend, following the suggestions within this thread.



Thanks !
 
JDookie said:
Then applying EX-P, the PC shouldn't be on any speed faster than 4 and doesn't get worked in, just applied.
Click to expand...



Thanks for the tips Jdookie, however this sentence ... do you mean apply it like you suggest and then leave to haze for 30 - 60 minutes and then remove? Or apply at speed 4 until it disappears or ... ?



Thanks for the reply PoorBoy it has helped me understand my problem too.
 
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