3M-PIII 09533/05937/8 question?

[Changeling]

I intend to use the Menzerna PO106FF as the final finishing polish, but would really like your opinion on the lead in to this.



I think by now you are familiar with the paint (Toyota Black).

My intention is to do the following, LOL! The surface preparation is still my main goal and always will be, it is very apparent that (Prep) is where it's at regardless of what anyone thinks. You, Dave G, and others have instilled that into my mind and I really believe you!



Question: Overall there are only light scratches around the door handles and some spots that I will have to "Wet Sand"/fill. I have all ready started this process and things are going well. I seem to look at it as a new paint job, but that is the way it is in my mind.

Other than the rough spots and corrections which will be 3P III 05933 is there any reason after the 05933 workout that I just can't go to the PO 106FF for the whole truck?



I intend to follow this with either "AIO" or "Prime Strong" to get rid of any/all oxidation as I can.

Hopefully this will leave me with an awesome surface for applying the MEGs #7 Glaze and then a couple layers of Chemical Guys 50/50.

As always I really appreciate hearing what you have to say.

Changeling

 

[Accumulator]

Changeling- Not having tried the Menzerna PO106FF, I can' say whether you could skip the 05937 and go straight from 05933 to the Menzerna or not. I'd probably give it a try and see if it works.



Food for thought: unless you get the finish *very* well-corrected (that'd be with the 05933), I dunno what benefit a super-fine finishing polish will offer. If you can get it basically marring-free, then cool. But if it's gonna be a "85-90%" job, then I'd probably just use the 05937.



I suspect you'll want to use the 05933 on the entire truck. I simply can't imagine a vehicle that age that wouldn't need at least that much work everywhere. I did a quick initial pass on the MPV with 05933/Cyclo green pads and that was in *awfully* nice condition when I did it; if a vehicle that's *that* nice needs 05933 then I'm sure yours will too.



Be sure to work the 05933 sufficiently, the more completely you break it down the more likely that you can get away with limited subsequent polishing. NO way for me to over-emphasize that you'll do almost all the correction with the 05933. Let the final polishing remove (only) the very light micromarring from the 05933, don't switch to milder products until all the original marring is gone.



I'd be a little surprised if you still have much oxidation after doing the truck with those polishes. FWIW I wouldn't use AIO/Prime after the polishing.



I can envision possible problems applying #7 over top of the AIO/Prime/etc. but I guess you'll find out when you try it. Much as I like #7 (used it since the '70s), it can be a little tricky and I just dunno if I'd recommend your using it on this job.



Not sure I'd use Strong if you do use the Menzerna. IIRC it leaves a nice enough finish that you don't want to use *anything* abrasive after it.



Your plan has changed quite a bit since your initial inquiries..

 

[Changeling]

What problems are you referring to by putting #7 over AIO/Prime, Etc. Are you referring to possibly compromising the quality of the correction/polish with a cleaner (AIO/Prime)? I never/didn't realize that it was possible to degrade a really good polishing job with a cleaner.



So if I am reading you correctly. Get the Prep as perfect as I can with the #05933 and then evaluate what I was able to achieve with the #05933. At that point make the determination whether to go on to the Menzerna PO106ff or finish out the job with #05937.



So you are saying I am literally trying to do "to much" without completing one phase correctly and evaluating my next move, and this is NOT "painting by Numbers", if you know what I mean.

This is good advice I can see where I have let myself get to wrapped up in wax's, polishes, etc, without stopping to see where I am trying to go.



Question: Will it hurt anything to do as much as I can over a few days with the #05933 till I consider that phase completed, then go on to the next total vehicle phase #05937/PO106ff ?



You said my plan has changed by quite a bit since my initial inquires! Quite right! What you don't realize was my intention when I first came was to find a good product to clean my wheels/tires, LOLOL. $1500.00 or so later I think I am getting ready to do my wheels, OH, the rest of the truck also, LOL.



Change

 

[Changeling]

What problems are you referring to by putting #7 over AIO/Prime, Etc. Are you referring to possibly compromising the quality of the correction/polish with a cleaner (AIO/Prime)? I never/didn't realize that it was possible to degrade a really good polishing job with a cleaner.



So if I am reading you correctly. Get the Prep as perfect as I can with the #05933 and then evaluate what I was able to achieve with the #05933. At that point make the determination whether to go on to the Menzerna PO106ff or finish out the job with #05937.



So you are saying I am literally trying to do "to much" without completing one phase correctly and evaluating my next move, and this is NOT "painting by Numbers", if you know what I mean.

This is good advice I can see where I have let myself get to wrapped up in wax's, polishes, etc, without stopping to see where I am trying to go.



Question: Will it hurt anything to do as much as I can over a few days with the #05933 till I consider that phase completed, then go on to the next total vehicle phase #05937/PO106ff ?



You said my plan has changed by quite a bit since my initial inquires! Quite right! What you don't realize was my intention when I first came was to find a good product to clean my wheels/tires, LOLOL. $1500.00 or so later I think I am getting ready to do my wheels, OH, the rest of the truck also, LOL.



Change

 

[Accumulator]

What problems are you referring to by putting #7 over AIO/Prime, Etc. Are you referring to possibly compromising the quality of the correction/polish with a cleaner (AIO/Prime)? I never/didn't realize that it was possible to degrade a really good polishing job with a cleaner...

Products like AIO leave stuff behind. I'm not sure if the #7 will bond to such products. It usually "catches" in the grain/texture/micro-fissures of paint and adheres that way..dunno how it'll work over some product like AIO. And FWIW I'm just not a big fan of #7 on basecoat/clear paint. There are a lot of other glazes (including Meg's #5/#3) that I'd reach for first.



IIRC people who have used products like Prime Strong over some of the Menzerna finishing polishes reported that the Strong messed up the appearance of the previously perfectly polished paint. No first-hand experience, but IMO if you get a finish good enough to finish with PO106FF then you oughta be very careful about what you apply susequently. I wouldn't *expect* a problem from AIO but I just don't know and I'd hate for you to mess up a perfect finish.



If you get it good enough for PO106FF it oughta be basically perfect. The only reason I'd apply something like AIO/Strong at that point would be to ensure the bonding of a product like KSG, so I'd use the mildest possible product for that (i.e., KAIO instead of Strong).



But that's a mighty big "if"...the whole perfect finish issue

So if I am reading you correctly. Get the Prep as perfect as I can with the #05933 and then evaluate what I was able to achieve with the #05933. At that point make the determination whether to go on to the Menzerna PO106ff or finish out the job with #05937...

Yeah, I just don't know how nice you'll be able to get it and I don't want you to switch to a finishing polish too soon (gotta let the aggressive stuff do the hard work). And if it's not coming out nearly perfect I sure don't see a reason to finish with PO106FF. Not sure what your paint is like, but I was completely satsified with 05933/05937 then the Klasse twins on my MPV, and I'm pretty particular.



You could get it as good as possible with 05933, then give it a quick pass with 05937. That oughta eliminate any micromarring. Then do a section with the PO106FF and see if it's sufficiently better to justify doing the whole vehicle.



Decisions like whether to go with a glaze or not, or use a sealant, or just apply a carnauba should, IMO, be left until *after* you see how the correction goes. The way I see it, everything depends on what condition the paint ends up in after you do the correction and at this point that's hard to predict.

Question: Will it hurt anything to do as much as I can over a few days with the #05933 till I consider that phase completed, then go on to the next total vehicle phase #05937/PO106ff ?

Not as long as you keep it clean in between detailing sessions. I often spend a few days doing a full detail. Heh heh, I'm spending a few *months* on the M3

 

[superstring]

Hi guys, hope I'm not busting in on a private conversation



Accumulator, so #05933 is really THAT good? I thought that you would always need to use a "series" of ever finer polishes to achieve a "perfect" finish, much in the same way you would use lighter and lighter grades of sandpaper when working with wood. (The exception being, I guess, a product like Meg's #80, which uses oils and fillers to hide the micro-marring left behind by the "diminishing" abrasives). From your description 05933 sounds like the only polish a guy would ever need.

 

[xtremekustomz]

Sorry to break in on the "private conversation" but I have used Menzerna FPIII after using the 05933 and I got everything 100% swirl and scratch free. 05933 really is an amazing product as well as the 05937. 05937 is a good bit different from the Menzerna line though. From what I have experienced, you really don't have much working time with it. Also if you put too much on at one time it is aggrevating to get off.

 

[Accumulator]

Hi guys, hope I'm not busting in on a private conversation



Accumulator, so #05933 is really THAT good? I thought that you would always need to use a "series" of ever finer polishes to achieve a "perfect" finish, much in the same way you would use lighter and lighter grades of sandpaper when working with wood. (The exception being, I guess, a product like Meg's #80, which uses oils and fillers to hide the micro-marring left behind by the "diminishing" abrasives). From your description 05933 sounds like the only polish a guy would ever need.

Heh heh, I'm surprised a Mod didn't spank Changeling for directing a thread at a specific member...must've slipped under the radar



The old PI-III RC 05933 *is* a great product, but it's not a miracle worker. It's not as aggressive as some stuff I like (e.g., H-T EC) and it doesn't finish out perfectly (hence the need for something like PI-III MG 05937 afterwards). So I *do* use a gradually milder series of steps. I just don't start with the milder stuff until the 05933 has basically removed/diminished all the marring that I plan to deal with.



But the 05933 does finish out nicely enough that a quick pass with the 05937 is enough to remove any micromarring. Sometimes I'm even a little surprised by how well the 05937 spruces things up; the 05933's finish can look fairly good on silver but then you do the follow up and "gee, that's a lot better".



I use 05933 then 05937 on the two vehicles that I put sealants on, the S8 (UPP) and the Mazda MPV (Klasse twins). On the S8 I'll also then follow up with the 1Z Pro MP but I don't bother doing that on the minivan. Would that follow up also benefit the minivan? Maybe, but A) I don't care enough to find out, b) it's not like the minivan's appearance is deficient or anything after the 05937, and c) while the 1Z Pro MP and what it leaves behind work fine before UPP, I don't want anything left behind before I use Klasse. Also, I'm simply not sold on the need for the ultimate finishing polish effect on every vehicle, even those that I consider as close to marring-free as possible.



Oh, and IMO the Meg's #80 is sorta like the PI-III MG 05937 only with a lot of the trade secret oils/etc. that help it leave a nice looking finish. I don't get much micromarring from the #80's abrasives, but I *have* had that happen on a very soft repaint. Generally, I find that the stuff #80 leaves behind is filling imperfections that were already there before I used the #80. FWIW I prefer 1Z polishes over the #80 and other Meguiar's stuff unless there's a fresh repaint involved.

 

[JasonD]

Heh heh, I'm surprised a Mod didn't spank Changeling for directing a thread at a specific member...must've slipped under the radar

Yes it did, and I am just noticing it. I will let this one go, but have made the necessary changes to the title and such.



Changeling, please resort to PM for this type of conversation next time.

 

[superstring]

Heh heh, I'm surprised a Mod didn't spank Changeling for directing a thread at a specific member...must've slipped under the radar



The old PI-III RC 05933 *is* a great product, but it's not a miracle worker. It's not as aggressive as some stuff I like (e.g., H-T EC) and it doesn't finish out perfectly (hence the need for something like PI-III MG 05937 afterwards). So I *do* use a gradually milder series of steps. I just don't start with the milder stuff until the 05933 has basically removed/diminished all the marring that I plan to deal with.



But the 05933 does finish out nicely enough that a quick pass with the 05937 is enough to remove any micromarring. Sometimes I'm even a little surprised by how well the 05937 spruces things up; the 05933's finish can look fairly good on silver but then you do the follow up and "gee, that's a lot better".



I use 05933 then 05937 on the two vehicles that I put sealants on, the S8 (UPP) and the Mazda MPV (Klasse twins). On the S8 I'll also then follow up with the 1Z Pro MP but I don't bother doing that on the minivan. Would that follow up also benefit the minivan? Maybe, but A) I don't care enough to find out, b) it's not like the minivan's appearance is deficient or anything after the 05937, and c) while the 1Z Pro MP and what it leaves behind work fine before UPP, I don't want anything left behind before I use Klasse. Also, I'm simply not sold on the need for the ultimate finishing polish effect on every vehicle, even those that I consider as close to marring-free as possible.



Oh, and IMO the Meg's #80 is sorta like the PI-III MG 05937 only with a lot of the trade secret oils/etc. that help it leave a nice looking finish. I don't get much micromarring from the #80's abrasives, but I *have* had that happen on a very soft repaint. Generally, I find that the stuff #80 leaves behind is filling imperfections that were already there before I used the #80. FWIW I prefer 1Z polishes over the #80 and other Meguiar's stuff unless there's a fresh repaint involved.

As usual a thoughtful and thorough reply, Accumulator! Thanks.

 

[Accumulator]

Sorry to break in on the "private conversation" but I have used Menzerna FPIII after using the 05933 and I got everything 100% swirl and scratch free..

Thanks for that! I guess it shouldn't surprise me much but I don't have that much experience with the Menzerna stuff. Sure glad you posted it, now I know.



Funny how you can get used to something...I'm *so* used to using the 05937 that I think of its work time as *perfect* and I always seem to get the quantity right...heh heh, it's other products that I struggle with. Familiarity goes a long way.

Changeling, please resort to PM for this type of conversation next time.

Or, better yet IMO, just leave out the specific user-name. Threads like this can be helpful (hey, *I* just learned about the Menzerna after 05933) in ways that PMs can never be.

 

[JasonD]

Or, better yet IMO, just leave out the specific user-name. Threads like this can be helpful (hey, *I* just learned about the Menzerna after 05933) in ways that PMs can never be.

I fully agree, which is why I just removed the "call-out" in the title and such. This turned out to be a very informative thread.

 

[Changeling]

I fully agree, which is why I just removed the "call-out" in the title and such. This turned out to be a very informative thread.

Sorry, I don't want to be spanked anymore, might start to like it

Actually I was so involved with the question, and Accumulator was the one who introduced me to these products that I forgot/didn't realize/never thought you couldn't identify a particular Autopian. It was simply a reaction to information presented in the past, with a touch of the present products.



Changeling

 

[xtremekustomz]

Funny how you can get used to something...I'm *so* used to using the 05937 that I think of its work time as *perfect* and I always seem to get the quantity right...heh heh, it's other products that I struggle with. Familiarity goes a long way.

Now don't get me wrong I still like the 05937 but haven't been able to work it pefectly on my particular truck. As for the FPIII.......it is pretty much fool proof in my book LOL I think you would like the menzerna. The 05937 always broke down really quickly with me and I would have to go over panels multiple times (probably user error I am sure) but the menzerna seems to take care of everything with one pass.

 

[Changeling]

Now don't get me wrong I still like the 05937 but haven't been able to work it pefectly on my particular truck. As for the FPIII.......it is pretty much fool proof in my book LOL I think you would like the menzerna. The 05937 always broke down really quickly with me and I would have to go over panels multiple times (probably user error I am sure) but the menzerna seems to take care of everything with one pass.

Actually I remember you very well sir. You are the person who presented a set of pictures of your vehicle using Collinite 476s and urged me to give it a go! I was so impressed with your detailing/pictures that I just plain ordered it that afternoon. Accumulator has tried to get me to go that route (subtly) for quite a while.

I am aware that in the end it just might come down to that! However everyone has there idea of what is right regardless of whether they are right or wrong, this is what differentiates us from being idiots/followers/or adventurers. I wouldn't take any bets on the "Professor" being wrong, but I sure as hell am going try an make him say it.

Take care, Changeling

 

[imported_themightytimmah]

A couple #7 tips for you... use it over virgin paint, it tends to streak over AIO. Use a PC and a finishing/finessing pad, work it into the paint with a PC @5. Only use a tiny amount, and wipe off panels as you finish them.

 

[Changeling]

A couple #7 tips for you... use it over virgin paint, it tends to streak over AIO. Use a PC and a finishing/finessing pad, work it into the paint with a PC @5. Only use a tiny amount, and wipe off panels as you finish them.

Virgin paint, do you mean fully prepped paint before any (#7) LSP's ?

I sold my PC, I now have just a Cyclo and a Metabo with just about every pad you can think of!

Please answer because I can see this could be a big point I was not aware of. Thank you very much for the input.

Change

 

[Accumulator]

Now don't get me wrong I still like the 05937 but haven't been able to work it pefectly on my particular truck. As for the FPIII.......it is pretty much fool proof in my book LOL I think you would like the menzerna. The 05937 always broke down really quickly with me and I would have to go over panels multiple times (probably user error I am sure) but the menzerna seems to take care of everything with one pass.

I sure agree that every product doesn't work well on every finish. That quick breakdown of the 05937 is probably something I *like* as I'm sorta used to multiple passes anyhow.



The Menzerna stuff, well, I gotta see. I used FPI as a final polish on the S8 and wasn't impressed (greatly preferred 1Z Pro MP). I have the Menzerna/BF SRC Finishing Polish but I haven't gotten around to using it yet.



Just to clarify, exactly which Menzerna product are you referring to when you say "FPIII"?



Changeling- One of my frequent broken-record/rants is avoiding the nit-picking and over-complication when it serves no *functional* purpose. While I play around with finishing polishes on the S8 and lean towards pampering of the Jag, on real-world vehicles you can do a *LOT* worse than Collinite's 476S. My Blazer is truly a POS by my standards and it gets used hard. But I think it looks fine with Collinite (over 1Z Paint Polish) and the Collinite is very easy to maintain due to its self-cleaning nature and durability. If I had a $15K paintjob put on the Blazer to solve its issues, I'd go right back to using Collinite on it after the paint cured. I'll admit that my wife and I both prefer #16 on her A8 though

On both those vehicles, I have a 1Z polish (PP on the Blazer, WPS on the A8) under the wax...my Meg's glazes stayed on the shelf. I'll use them for *something* but they've just been sorta "filtered out" of my usual regimens....which is saying something considering how much I've always liked #5.

 

[xtremekustomz]

Actually I remember you very well sir. You are the person who presented a set of pictures of your vehicle using Collinite 476s and urged me to give it a go! I was so impressed with your detailing/pictures that I just plain ordered it that afternoon. Accumulator has tried to get me to go that route (subtly) for quite a while.

I am aware that in the end it just might come down to that! However everyone has there idea of what is right regardless of whether they are right or wrong, this is what differentiates us from being idiots/followers/or adventurers. I wouldn't take any bets on the "Professor" being wrong, but I sure as hell am going try an make him say it.

Take care, Changeling

You may have mistaken me with someone else or may have meant to quote another line of text. The only products I have ever used to buff and polish so far have been 05933, 05937, and Menzerna Final Polish II (I meant this and not FPIII, I type too fast and don't catch my mistakes sometimes). Like Accumulator said, not every polish works well for every vehicle. I know of a body shop that color sanded and buffed a new black car and used Sherwin Williams clear and all they needed were the 3M products. On my particular truck they worked very well but I still needed a finer polish to complete everything.

 

[Accumulator]

...[I used]..Menzerna Final Polish II (I meant this and not FPIII, I type too fast ...)...

OK, now I'm with you. As you noted, every finish is different. The FP (I only used the FPI) was *much* too mild to correct the 05933's micromarring on Audi clear, I had to get the finish basically perfect before the FP did *anything*. If you do different cars (I'm not a pro, just have too many vehicles...) it sure pays to have a decent selection of products on hand.