#20 provided better protection than Zaino....

S

suginami

New member
My wife and I had to leave our cars outside of the garage for about 5 days. Both cars got hit with sprinklers daily, and the water dried on the cars, leaving heavy water spots / mineral deposits.



My wife's car is a 1994 black Infiniti G20. I had five coats of Z5 and two coats of Z2 on the car, the last coat of Z2 was put on two weeks before the car was left outside. That is a total of seven coats of Zaino.



My car is a 1993 smoke silver (champage color) Mercedes E320 and had one coat of Meguiar's #20 Polymer Sealant. The coat of Meguiar's #20 was put on the same day as the last coat of Z2 was applied to the Infiniti G20.



I washed and detailed both cars this past weekend.



The results?



The water deposits chemically etched the paint on the G20. Went right through the seven coats of Zaino, and left mineral deposits on the paint. I tried removing the water spots with my Dual Action Polisher, and it wouldn't remove the chemical etching, even with the Meguiar's Compounding pad and #83.



I had to pull out the DeWalt Rotary Buffer and use the Meguiar's Compounding Pad and #83. I then stepped down to #82 and the Polishing Pad, then #82 again with the finishing pad. I then hand applied Show Car Glaze, and just applied a coat of #20 Polymer Sealant.



My E320, on the other hand, remained completely protected with one coat of Polymer Sealant. Everything just hosed right off, and the paint was spotless. No chemical etching. All of the water spots, bird droppings, dirt, etc. just hosed right off.



I'm done with Zaino.
 
I doubt it has anything to do with the Zaino. Light colored cars don't get nearly as hot and would be less susceptible to being etched.



Whether you have 2, 10, or 200 coats of Zaino on your car you are getting no more protection than a single coat. All additional coats are for looks.



I would be interested in the results of the black G20 if you did side by side testing with half Meguiar's and half with Zaino. The hood is the ideal test area.
 
Did you wash the finish with Dawn AFTER your polishing or did you go straight to Zaino?



If you went straight to Zaino, it did not bond. As per verbal with Sal on questions on which polish works better for a prep with Zaino, his answer was any polish will work, however, you MUST wash the oils off the paint first! All polsihes contain some form of oils (petroleum distillates) which inhibit a proper bond with Zaino and paint.



Next time, wash the car after polishing to remove all oils. Then Zaino the finish.



In doubt, as Sal yourself.



Regards,

Deanski
 
Experimenting with Zaino / #20 on the black car would be the ultimate test, but I'm just done with Zaino.



I've sold all of my inventory to a guy on a Mercedes Discussion Group for $5 / bottle.



I get better results with Meguiar's anyway.



I had been using Zaino on both cars for a year, and am very familiar with the process. I always washed with dawn, clayed the car, washed with Zaino car wash, then applied Z1, then multiple coats of Z5, then Z2. I always sprayed the detailing spray (Z7? Z6?) in between coats.



I went to a full day training session put on by Mike Phillips at Meguiar's head office in Irvine, and walked away awfully impressed. As Mike Phillips says, no other company carries a more complete line of products.



I also got good results with Meguiar's, and the Polymer Sealant is such a good product, and it's compatible with all of the other Merguiar's products.



When you use Zaino, you have to stick with Zaino. If you use any other product, you can't re-apply Zaino. You are forced to start from scratch again (wash with dawn, clay, Z1, Z5, yada yada yada).
 
The only gripe I have with #20 is that if you don't buff it all off then it will stain your car. I use it on my door jambs and it stained the areas I didn't buff it off. Its a white car and I couldn't see where it was at so it was just my stupid fault. If you aren't stupid then you are fine. Its still a great product.
 
I find that #20 beads longer than zaino(for me), but i haven't had any real tests like yours to judge the actual protection they provide. Right now i'm using UPP/SG so it will be a while before i can experiment again.
 
Sug:



I hate to tell you this, but NOTHING, will protect paint when acid rain is present! Not #20, not Zaino... The ONLY thing that will is a car cover or 3M Paint Protection Film (Armorglove/Xpel etc). A garage also works well.... Sorry had to say it.



Being the car is black, when it is out in any sun, the water dropplets turn into maginifying glass effect, and the evaporation of the water leaves the acid much quicker than lighter colored car finishes. Your best advise is to find shelter for this auto if at all possible to minimize it's subjectivity to acid rain. A car cover may be your answer if you cannot park in a garage. The other thing is to clean the finish right away with a good car detergent as most have a balanced PH and can help offset the acid content when you wash. Actually, just adding more clean water will reduce the acid.



I remember #20 years ago when I had Megs detail line: Acid Rain Correction Cream,(smells like Big Red Gum) Clearcoat Conditioner etc and had it analyzed. I really didn't want to use it as it seem to have quite a bit of solvents in it, I have to get the reports if I can still find them. I tried it on a test hood laying around and found it streaked if I did not act quickly. The streaking was from the solvents, and it was a pain trying to figure out why until I got the results. Did protect well, but I found at that time it was easier for me just to use #26 wax on cars and just freshen them up as needed.



I'm not knocking #20, but there are more modern products out there for todays paint. You may want to research this a bit more and try something that will be for that type of finish. Remember paints today are mostly waterborne and lead free. To my knowledge, #20 is still the same formula years ago the last time I checked.



As you can see I use Zaino on my Lexus, but I garage this car 24/7. I like the way it looks as my neighbor said it looks as if the paint is fluid. I just touch-up with Z6 quite often to keep any dust off of it, if it's a lot of dust, or feels gritty, I wash with Z7 then Z6 the car after.



Whatever works for you, that's great! Just remember nothing will protect a finish from acids. It's getting to it in time B4 damage can occur.



Regards,

Deanski
 
*sigh*



Yet again when somebody 'reserves the right to not use Zaino' some Zaino fanatic pops up and slams the product the person prefers.



Look - fact is he found what he found.



He thinks Zaino sucks and wants to use #20.



Good stuff.

Dont knock him for it.



I use UPP.



It'll be a long, LONG time before I change as I have yet to find anything is as :



1)Cheap

2)Easy to use

3)Compatible with virtually every other product.



My view on Zaino are well known - it doesnt actually do anything to improve the quality of your paint condition - its a PITA to use - (mixing up little tubes n stuff) and it doesnt like being near ANY other products.



Finally, after all that expense, fooling around and general fussing it apparently gives no better protection than any other sealant.



All in all for me a bit of a waste of time.
 
Deanski said:


I'm not knocking #20, but there are more modern products out there for todays paint. You may want to research this a bit more and try something that will be for that type of finish.
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:confused:
 
Everyone has a product that works for them, mine are the klasse twins, s100, bf2, and #26(cars that i really don't feel like wasting good stuff on). Zaino is an enthusiast product, it works for some ppl, and some others it doesn't. Just remember though, its all in the prep, you screw the prep up, you won't get the results your looking for.
 
Thanks for all of the advise everyone. Both of my cars are generally always garaged. They were just parked outside for the one week while our garage was full of furniture while I was painting the inside of the house.



I have used Meguiar's for over 10 years prior to Zaino, and I have just found that I'm more comfortable with Meguiar's. It is a quality product, they make something for any paint finish, and it's flexible.



My favorite combination (once the paint is cleaned and machine polished with #3), is to hand apply #7, then #10. I let #10 "set up" for a 24 hours, then put a "skim coat" of Gold Class.



Both #10 and Gold Class dry white, so I don't usually use these products on the black car. The white residue really shows up on the rubber trim and the cracks / crevices / door jambs, etc. It's a PITA to remove. That is one of the main reasons why I was using Zaino on this car particularly. #26 dries clear, so I'm going to go back to #26 on the black G20 the next go around.
 
Hmmm...as someone already suggested earlier, maybe it was the black paint. I had been using #20 for over a year, and recently went with AIO/SG because I found the #20 durability to be not great for a car parked outside. Last year, my car was in the garage at nights, but now my wife parks in the garage.



I have found the #20 to be mostly gone after 6 - 8 weeks when parked outside, and now that I am using AIO/SG, I have found the Klasse to last 3 months or so. The #20 was easier to use for sure, and beaded like mad, but it wasn't up to being outside in a rainy climate all winter.
 
In my particular case, #20 provided better protection than Zaino, even though Zaino had 7 coats to just one coat of #20.



I encourage everyone to stick with the product(s) that give them the best results and that they enjoy using.



After thinking about it last night and this morning, I find it hard to believe that heat caused by the black paint is the primary factor that Zaino failed. How many degrees hotter could the black paint have been compared to the smoke silver paint? Could this temperature difference (10 degrees? 20 degrees? 30 degrees?) account for the difference? I just don't see it....
 
Smoker said:
*sigh*



Yet again when somebody 'reserves the right to not use Zaino' some Zaino fanatic pops up and slams the product the person prefers.



Look - fact is he found what he found.



He thinks Zaino sucks and wants to use #20.



Good stuff.

Dont knock him for it.



I use UPP.



It'll be a long, LONG time before I change as I have yet to find anything is as :



1)Cheap

2)Easy to use

3)Compatible with virtually every other product.



My view on Zaino are well known - it doesnt actually do anything to improve the quality of your paint condition - its a PITA to use - (mixing up little tubes n stuff) and it doesnt like being near ANY other products.



Finally, after all that expense, fooling around and general fussing it apparently gives no better protection than any other sealant.



All in all for me a bit of a waste of time.
Click to expand...



I'm not knocking Megs#20, just have facts on what it is and what is in it. As for Zaino, yes I use it, but I do not want others to use it if they feel they have something better. That's great.



I'm just stating that years ago I did research on #20 and found it to be loaded with solvents that just smear... No big deal, so I switched to #26 back in those days.



Todays finishes take a different approach, and some things from the past still work, and some do not. It's always the trial and error process, or trying something that another has used with good results. That's how this forum got it's legs.



If #20 works for you, great. I just know that half the Megs staff if you called into the help line will give you different results in the product. A known problem Megs still has to work out with there call center. Not knocking them, just get different responces... kinda like here!



As for other products, yes there are some more out there, just read the reviews. Most do not contain UV inhibitors, which is expensive to begin with. Purchased straight UV inhibitors for a boat one time, and 55 gal drums were not cheap!!! Very large boat....



Bottom line on ANY sealant IS the prep you do before hand. The better you do, the better the product will respond. Simple enough? If you rush your prep, you end up with a possible mess or poor productivity of the item you used.



So those that want to use #20.. go right ahead, no one will stop you. They may have opinions or actual proof, results or have been in the biz for many years. It's up to you to come to a conclusion on issues such as this. Relax, go have fun and shine up the car. That's what I'm going to do....



Regards,

Deanski
 
suginami said:
After thinking about it last night and this morning, I find it hard to believe that heat caused by the black paint is the primary factor that Zaino failed. How many degrees hotter could the black paint have been compared to the smoke silver paint? Could this temperature difference (10 degrees? 20 degrees? 30 degrees?) account for the difference? I just don't see it....
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I guess it depends on where you live. Very easy to check though. Just park both your cars outside at noon on a sunny day. After 1 hour, put on hand on the black car, and then put your hand on the silver car. I think you would be surprised at the temperature difference. I know I was unable to put my hand on the black paint of a Pathfinder I was working on this weekend, after it had sat in the sun for 20 minutes, as I was drying it, and prior to pulling into the garage. It was very uncomfortable to touch. I know that I have never had that problem with my own car, which is grey/green.



Folks here have noted tempertures over 200 degrees F on their black cars. I think you'll agree that nothing will stand up too well to that kind of heat. Do a search and you'll see those threads.



By all means, if you don't see much of a difference, report back also. Always interesting to see more concrete data instead of conjecture.
 
Suginami, thanks for sharing that with us. I get water-spotting on my Z'd black bimmer also, but not on my silver Civic (Zaino'd as well). Color probably does play a factor, but it could also be that I'm not looking carefully enough.



Deanski, don't worry too much about Smoker's post.... I've learned to ignore his Anti-Z rhetoric. His unrelenting Zaino-bash sessions have gotten real old and the stuff tends to come in one ear....and out the other... :) I miss the days of carguy where although he would bash Zaino, he was actually logical and mature about it.
 
Intermezzo said:
I miss the days of carguy where although he would bash Zaino, he was actually logical and mature about it.
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<chuckle>



And carguy was also basing his criticism on his own experience with Zaino. Last I knew, Smoker hadn't tried Zaino . . . has that changed?



Tort
 
I have to agree, Meguiar's #20 Polymer Sealant is my favourite product!!! Period!!! :up



I have never had durability problems with it and believe me, I have lived in some pretty harsh places!! I am not sure why some people have trouble with it, or say that it is stops working after a few weeks; how do you know it has stopped? Water beading has NOTHING to do with protection. If the initail beading is gone but the shine and gloss remains for a few months then I would say that it is indeed still working. The chemists at Meguiar's test the products for durability with instruments and procdures that no consumer would have access to. I trust their judgement.



I am also confused when someone says that #20 is not for modern cars. That is an incorrect statement. Meguair's takes great pains to update and continually improve on their products to meet the demands of todays cars and trucks.



Just IMHO!!!
 
Look guys, Smoker's post was not intended to comment on Zaino's performance - at least not in the beginning. He was referring to stubborn people who cannot leave someone to be happy with a product when they make a negative comment about some aspect of zaino. Everyone looks for factors that may have impacted his results, but rarely accept any findings that are generally zaino negative. That has nothing to do with whether or not he has tried a product. No violations of logic. Feel free to disagree as i'm sure you will.



Note: Any thread which includes "better than zaino" will always turn negative. Must be a coincidence.
 
2hotford said:
I have never had durability problems with it and believe me, I have lived in some pretty harsh places!! I am not sure why some people have trouble with it, or say that it is stops working after a few weeks; how do you know it has stopped? Water beading has NOTHING to do with protection.
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I agree with you there. Beading has nothing to do with anything. However, it's pretty easy to tell whether you are washing bare paint, or #20. When you have fresh #20, or any wax or sealant for that matter, does it not make bugs and grime wash off really easy? After 8 weeks with #20, I have to really scrub to get a bug splat out. With Klasse, my wash mitts just glides over the paint, even after 3 months. For sure the product is deteriorated, but there is still some protection left.



I wonder if it has to do with rain composition, Tim. Have you always lived in the interior? The salt usage here is insane in the winter time, and our rain is getting pretty acidic here (not really acid rain, but no longer neutral pH like when I was a kid). I wonder if getting 300 days of rain a year has anything to do with it. :)
 
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