My New Toy!!!!!!!!!!!
- Thread starter usdm
- Start date
Clean Dean
Keep it clean !!!
How's theweight and balance on that DA. I heard Dewalt has a mean DA now also. I am guessing that is a Makita???
Bence
New member
Wow, a dual action dual action!!! Must be good! But it is two times more xpensive in Hungary, as in the States!!!!! Post your experiences!
3Dog
New member
Here is a rundown on it
http://www.properautocare.com/matwomopo.html
http://www.properautocare.com/matwomopo.html
shotime
Privitize it
Never used one of those. It looks like maybe it's inbetween a cyclo and PC?
Here's a quick review. Just my initial thoughts, so don't take this as gospel.
My peeves
This machine is not quiet. In comparison to the PC, I do not see any real difference in noise muting. I still had to raise my voice just to have a conversation with someone on the other side of the car I was working on, and I had to shut off the machine a few times to hear what folks were saying to me.
The machine feels heavy, with a good portion of the weight appearing to sit on top of the head. Which makes total sense, since this does rotary and d/a acton at the same time. Which brings me to my next peeve.....
The machine for some reason does not have a side handle. I thought I was going to be getting one with it when I ordered, but no luck. I will be contacting either Makita or Tyler tomorrow to see whats the deal with that (when I bought this, there was a section that indicated side handle). Having the side handle does make a bit of difference to me, since it can help you steer and better control the machine when you are running it at a high speed. In one scary moment, I lost control of the machine, and it lightly skipped over the section I was working on. Fortunately, I was able to correct this before I did damage. Unlike the PC, this thing can fatigue you because you are forced to distribute your arms in a fashion that you may not be totally comfortable with. For guys used to controlling buffers and/ or da's by the head, then this should not be a problem for you. But for the rest of us...
Thumbing through the manual, it warns not to run at very low speeds for a low time, as it may wear down the internals. This I do not like; it implies that the machine is wimpy and does not have the torque to go for long runs.
Unlike the PC, the speed control is not detented, so you are not exactly locked in to a particular setting until you hear and or feel the power increase or decrease.
I have not had a chance to try any other backing plates, but so far it looks like I am going to have a hard time with this puppy. Removal of the stock plate it comes with requires a hex key, and I just so happen not to have any right now. Once I am able to pull the plate off, I will have an idea of what (if any) headaches I am in store for.
It has an irritating little nozzle along the lower side of the head, used for dust evacuation. Of course it is a sander after all. Odd that PC does not have one on its machine. In any case, this may be a concern for some of you since working an angle might cause contact of the nozzle with the paint surface. For now, I am going to see about getting it taped up or something.
It is not cheap. Street value is around 299.00 and up. The lowest price I have seen for one of these was at Tyler Tools, which just so happens is the place that I purchased this from. It cost me 259.00, with free shipping.
Suffice to say, It does have a learning curve, but just a slight one. If you are comfortable with the PC, then you should not take long to get used to this device. As mentioneed in the CMA site, this provides you with two modes of operation: orbital, and roto-orbit. In regular orbit mode, it functions just like any d/a machine. When in roto-orbit, the pad stills jiggles around, but also has a forced rotation as well. I did not check the opm in just random orbit mode, but in roto mode opm is about 5800, and rpm is about just over 600. These are max numbers settings on the machine. What reall appealed to me was the rpm's of course. While it may not give you optimum performance of a rotary, it does allow you to do more paint correction than you would be able to accomplish with just a PC.
The power switch is nice, allowing you to hold the button in to run the machine for a quick moment, or lock it in place for an extended working out. I also like that the switch is along the side of the machine as oppossed to being on the top. This allows you to remain in control of the machine while you turn it off with your thumb. The only downside I see in this design is that left handed folks may have a problem with controlling this device, as you would probably have to use your left index finger (as oppossed to your left thumb) to control the off/ on action. This could prove to be very cumbersome.
In spite of the negatives I've encountered, I like this thing. It provides orbital action as well as rotary action. I have found that I can accomplish things a lot faster with this than I can with the PC (and I really like the PC).
If you are interested, I would suggest that you try one out at a tool rental place. This will give you a chance to get a feel for this machine so you can decide if this is for you.
I'll have more to say on this in a little while from now...
My peeves
This machine is not quiet. In comparison to the PC, I do not see any real difference in noise muting. I still had to raise my voice just to have a conversation with someone on the other side of the car I was working on, and I had to shut off the machine a few times to hear what folks were saying to me.
The machine feels heavy, with a good portion of the weight appearing to sit on top of the head. Which makes total sense, since this does rotary and d/a acton at the same time. Which brings me to my next peeve.....
The machine for some reason does not have a side handle. I thought I was going to be getting one with it when I ordered, but no luck. I will be contacting either Makita or Tyler tomorrow to see whats the deal with that (when I bought this, there was a section that indicated side handle). Having the side handle does make a bit of difference to me, since it can help you steer and better control the machine when you are running it at a high speed. In one scary moment, I lost control of the machine, and it lightly skipped over the section I was working on. Fortunately, I was able to correct this before I did damage. Unlike the PC, this thing can fatigue you because you are forced to distribute your arms in a fashion that you may not be totally comfortable with. For guys used to controlling buffers and/ or da's by the head, then this should not be a problem for you. But for the rest of us...
Thumbing through the manual, it warns not to run at very low speeds for a low time, as it may wear down the internals. This I do not like; it implies that the machine is wimpy and does not have the torque to go for long runs.
Unlike the PC, the speed control is not detented, so you are not exactly locked in to a particular setting until you hear and or feel the power increase or decrease.
I have not had a chance to try any other backing plates, but so far it looks like I am going to have a hard time with this puppy. Removal of the stock plate it comes with requires a hex key, and I just so happen not to have any right now. Once I am able to pull the plate off, I will have an idea of what (if any) headaches I am in store for.
It has an irritating little nozzle along the lower side of the head, used for dust evacuation. Of course it is a sander after all. Odd that PC does not have one on its machine. In any case, this may be a concern for some of you since working an angle might cause contact of the nozzle with the paint surface. For now, I am going to see about getting it taped up or something.
It is not cheap. Street value is around 299.00 and up. The lowest price I have seen for one of these was at Tyler Tools, which just so happens is the place that I purchased this from. It cost me 259.00, with free shipping.
Suffice to say, It does have a learning curve, but just a slight one. If you are comfortable with the PC, then you should not take long to get used to this device. As mentioneed in the CMA site, this provides you with two modes of operation: orbital, and roto-orbit. In regular orbit mode, it functions just like any d/a machine. When in roto-orbit, the pad stills jiggles around, but also has a forced rotation as well. I did not check the opm in just random orbit mode, but in roto mode opm is about 5800, and rpm is about just over 600. These are max numbers settings on the machine. What reall appealed to me was the rpm's of course. While it may not give you optimum performance of a rotary, it does allow you to do more paint correction than you would be able to accomplish with just a PC.
The power switch is nice, allowing you to hold the button in to run the machine for a quick moment, or lock it in place for an extended working out. I also like that the switch is along the side of the machine as oppossed to being on the top. This allows you to remain in control of the machine while you turn it off with your thumb. The only downside I see in this design is that left handed folks may have a problem with controlling this device, as you would probably have to use your left index finger (as oppossed to your left thumb) to control the off/ on action. This could prove to be very cumbersome.
In spite of the negatives I've encountered, I like this thing. It provides orbital action as well as rotary action. I have found that I can accomplish things a lot faster with this than I can with the PC (and I really like the PC).
If you are interested, I would suggest that you try one out at a tool rental place. This will give you a chance to get a feel for this machine so you can decide if this is for you.
I'll have more to say on this in a little while from now...
Last edited:
Had a chance to contact Makita this morning about the side handle, and about the hex key. The side handle is in fact an option piece not sold with the buffer- the hex key is supposed to come with the kit. They're sending both out to me, and hopefuly i will have them by this Thurs or Fri. cost me an additional 9.00 plus shipping.
usdm said:
I actually think a lot of electric motors are like this. I believe it might have to do with the machine overheating. I don't know. Electrical equipment confuses me. Anyone know an EE they can ask?
The PC, this Makita, and the DeWalt are all orbital sanders. My DeWalt also has the dust collection nozzle on it. They weren't designed for use on paint but someone figured out they work well for detailing. And compared to other sanders, the PC is somewhat cheap, which would explain why it didn't come setup for dust collection.
dr_detail
Beautification Specialist
hmmm.... you got my creative detail juices flowing and this one I might just look into. I've been using a rotary for over 17 years now -- and the DA's never really excite me they just seemed to me like scaled down waxmasters.
But this one looks interesting. Please keep us posted on your tests.
Also for those who may be looking to buy -- I found this link :
http://store.yahoo.com/tylertool/makbo66varsp.html
$259.00 with free shipping
But this one looks interesting. Please keep us posted on your tests.
Also for those who may be looking to buy -- I found this link :
http://store.yahoo.com/tylertool/makbo66varsp.html
$259.00 with free shipping
Deanski
STUTTGART'S FINEST
It figures!
Geez, I just replaced my Makita 9227C several months ago.
The old one finally blew the gears, and I new it was time to lay it to rest in my tool mausoleum.
I knew the side handle for this tool is an option, like other Makita sanders. Why they do that who knows?
Interested to see how well this thing does.
USDM,
Great write-up! Keep us informed!:bigups
Regards,
Deanski
Geez, I just replaced my Makita 9227C several months ago.
The old one finally blew the gears, and I new it was time to lay it to rest in my tool mausoleum.
I knew the side handle for this tool is an option, like other Makita sanders. Why they do that who knows?
Interested to see how well this thing does.
USDM,
Great write-up! Keep us informed!:bigups
Regards,
Deanski
Intel486 said:
Good point. In the short amount of time I used this puppy, it did heat up a bit, but the heatup happened regardless of whether I ran at high or low speed. The palm grip on the head does allow you to keep working, though, as that section only gets a little warm.
dr_detail said:hmmm.... you got my creative detail juices flowing and this one I might just look into. I've been using a rotary for over 17 years now -- and the DA's never really excite me they just seemed to me like scaled down waxmasters.
But this one looks interesting. Please keep us posted on your tests.
Also for those who may be looking to buy -- I found this link :
http://store.yahoo.com/tylertool/makbo66varsp.html
$259.00 with free shipping
Thats the place I got it from. Based on the talk i had with the Makita Rep, don't be surprised if you don't get the hex key, and don't expect to get the side handle. Just order it from Makita directly. The parts usually ship out from Chi-town, so i would recon 3-4 days for either coast. Even if you have to order the parts seperately, the overall cost (at the onset), still comes out cheaper. Good news is that it already comes with a 6" hook and loop pad, so you can still use your pad of choice.
Re: It figures!
Thanks Deanski.
LOL, wish i knew about the side handle thing in advance. One of the guys on Autopia got one of these as well, but only because he could not get a PC. I recall him saying that he did not get a side handle either, but i just assummed that it was because he was overseas (not that it should make any difference).
I can't think of a reason why not supply the handle either. I guess maybe the folks that buy these things don't need them. I know I do, though.
I can tell you off the bat that I was able to do some more extensive correction with this tool. I was able to significantly reduce a scratch that had been on my car for a while. I hit it with FCRC, then some FP. I ran both compound and polish around 4 1/2 (my best guess), and had the machine set on roto-orbit. I am certain if I took my time with it, I could've almost eliminated it. Unfortunately, I have a day job, and this detailing thing right now is just an expensive hobby. I do know that when i tried the same steps with the PC, i did not even make a dent in the thing, and it took me a lot longer just to accomplish nothing.
If i am going to accomplsh nothing, then i want to do it NOW:lmfao
Deanski said:
Thanks Deanski.
LOL, wish i knew about the side handle thing in advance. One of the guys on Autopia got one of these as well, but only because he could not get a PC. I recall him saying that he did not get a side handle either, but i just assummed that it was because he was overseas (not that it should make any difference).
I can't think of a reason why not supply the handle either. I guess maybe the folks that buy these things don't need them. I know I do, though.
I can tell you off the bat that I was able to do some more extensive correction with this tool. I was able to significantly reduce a scratch that had been on my car for a while. I hit it with FCRC, then some FP. I ran both compound and polish around 4 1/2 (my best guess), and had the machine set on roto-orbit. I am certain if I took my time with it, I could've almost eliminated it. Unfortunately, I have a day job, and this detailing thing right now is just an expensive hobby. I do know that when i tried the same steps with the PC, i did not even make a dent in the thing, and it took me a lot longer just to accomplish nothing.
If i am going to accomplsh nothing, then i want to do it NOW:lmfao
Deanski
STUTTGART'S FINEST
New Toy
USDM,
Glad to hear it's working well for you! Once you get more time with it, I'm sure you'll find all kinds of ways to resolve problems.
Sure beats holding my Makita! Sure, there are times the weight is needed for cut and control, but for light duty on stubborn scratches, I'd love to have that than draging out my 9227C.
Keep it up and I know you'll get this thing down pat and be able to give others assistance in tips/tricks with it!
Regards,
Deanski
USDM,
Glad to hear it's working well for you! Once you get more time with it, I'm sure you'll find all kinds of ways to resolve problems.
Sure beats holding my Makita! Sure, there are times the weight is needed for cut and control, but for light duty on stubborn scratches, I'd love to have that than draging out my 9227C.
Keep it up and I know you'll get this thing down pat and be able to give others assistance in tips/tricks with it!
Regards,
Deanski
Intel486 said:
Fair enough.
I know when I used to work at my father's shop full time, I used jitterbugs and pneumatic d/a's. They weren't much lighter but they were a bit more compact, so it was easy to use them by the head. Often, I would go so far as use them with one hand. But when it came to using the heavy stuff like grinders (the old school 20lbs Milwalkees'), I had to have a side handle. I did try a few times to use it without the handle, but I never really got a good hang for it (and I was very good with that sucker).
One technique I did try with the Makita is to hold it like I see some of the guys at the shop would hold a buffer; hands a long the body at the mid point. But I found that I still did not have real positive control over the machine. If i moved the machin too quickly, It would apply pressure to the pad, and flatten it a bit. I managed to flatten 2 Meguires polish pads when i used this technique. So there is definitely some weight at the fron of this machine as oppossed to a machine that has more even distribution like the PC or even most rotary buffers. When I tried that same style with the PC on a day when I was just beat, and the bursitus kicked in my right shoulder. I did pretty good, and the pads did not flatten.
Re: New Toy
Here's a quick review from a woodworker. Not exactly car detailing, but I think he provides some further reference and perspective:
TOOL TEST: Tools of the Trade Reviews 6-Inch Right-Angle Sanders
From Stripping Varnish to Fine Sanding, Right-Angle Sanders Do it All
By Chris Kulczycki
I've done my fair share of sanding through the years, but it wasn't until I built boats that I learned the true meaning of the word. Sanding projects were no longer measured in hours, but in long, dusty days and even agonizing weeks. I quickly learned to appreciate sanders that were not only powerful and smooth, but also quiet, vibration-free and fast. Right-angle sanders see heavy-duty use, from jobsites and cabinet shops to boatyards. You might use them to remove paint one day, to finish a built-in the next, and to buff a fine finish the day after that. We tested seven 6-inch, right-angle sanders — the Bosch 1370 DEVS, DeWalt DW443, Fein MSF636-1, Festool Rotex RO150E, Makita BO6040, Milwaukee 6125, and Porter-Cable 97366 — to see which ones could finish their work without finishing-off their operator.
Finishing Quality
The finishing quality of all the tools was very, very close. Choosing the right paper and speed enables any of these sanders to leave a nice finish. If pressed, I'd give the Makita, Festool, and DeWalt tools a slight edge in finishing quality. But in addition to the normal random orbital action found on all of the models, the Festool and Makita tools have another setting that provides more aggressive action. Festool calls this "combined rotary and eccentric action," while Makita labels it "forcible rotation mode." In both cases the pads rotate while adding an eccentric motion to the action. This removes materials faster than regular random orbital action. It doesn't leave as smooth a finish and tends to grab the wood, but it's a good feature.
Vibration, Feel, and Switches
In most tool tests I consider a tool's performance more important than ergonomics. But since I use right-angle sanders for long stretches, comfort is critical. In fact, I'd choose a model that's quiet, vibration-free, and comfortable to hold over one that's faster or even more durable.
The Makita and Festool sanders stand out as particularly vibration free and quiet, perhaps due to their larger size and weight. The Porter Cable sander is only a hair behind them. The Fein and DeWalt tools are also good in this regard. But Bosch's mechanical noise was unpleasant, and Milwaukee's vibration level was the highest of the bunch; I could feel the effects of this tool after an hour.
The tool bodies vary in shape from the short, bulky Porter-Cable to the long, thin Festool. All the tools were comfortable to hold with the following caveats: Fein's body is well-shaped, but made of slippery plastic; Porter-Cable's may be too thick for small hands; and DeWalt's switch falls right under your palm. The Makita and Festool sanders felt the most comfortable to me.
The heads on most of these sanders are shaped so you can hold them one-handed, like a large palm sander. This is useful for working on horizontal surfaces. I like DeWalt's rubber bonnet for this task. I found the Milwaukee tool's head got too hot to hold.
Six of the tools have sliding, lock-on, or rock-on power switches. Only the Milwaukee sander uses a paddle-type switch that you have to hold because there's no switch lock. This limits the ways you can hold the tool. The Festool was the only sander I managed to switch off accidentally. Its switch is located right where my thumb falls and a little downward pressure rocks it off.
All the sanders have well-designed, comfort side handles that mount on the left or right of the tool heads. The Festool, Makita, and Porter-Cable sanders came in carrying cases, which is a nice bonus.
Favorites
I'd be satisfied with any of these tools, but I do have my favorites. Tool prices range from about $150 to $500, but I didn't find that performance related directly to cost. In fact, my top pick isn't the priciest. My first choice is Makita's BO6040 because of its smooth, powerful, and pleasant performance. The Festool Rotex RO150E is a close second; it's a super tool and the only problem I had was with the switch location. Porter-Cable's 97366 is right behind; it's a great sander at a great price. DeWalt's DW443 comes next, I didn't find much wrong with this tool, but the company could improve the switch location. Fein's MSF636-1 left an excellent finish, but I wonder why such an expensive tool lacks speed control and has such an awkwardly shaped head. Bosch's sander noise was a negative, as was the ease at which its dust bag fell off. Milwaukee's 6125 sander follows them all across the finish line.
Chris Kulzycki is a boat builder and writer in West River, Md. He was an instructor at the Wooden Boat School for 10 years.
Deanski said:
Here's a quick review from a woodworker. Not exactly car detailing, but I think he provides some further reference and perspective:
TOOL TEST: Tools of the Trade Reviews 6-Inch Right-Angle Sanders
From Stripping Varnish to Fine Sanding, Right-Angle Sanders Do it All
By Chris Kulczycki
I've done my fair share of sanding through the years, but it wasn't until I built boats that I learned the true meaning of the word. Sanding projects were no longer measured in hours, but in long, dusty days and even agonizing weeks. I quickly learned to appreciate sanders that were not only powerful and smooth, but also quiet, vibration-free and fast. Right-angle sanders see heavy-duty use, from jobsites and cabinet shops to boatyards. You might use them to remove paint one day, to finish a built-in the next, and to buff a fine finish the day after that. We tested seven 6-inch, right-angle sanders — the Bosch 1370 DEVS, DeWalt DW443, Fein MSF636-1, Festool Rotex RO150E, Makita BO6040, Milwaukee 6125, and Porter-Cable 97366 — to see which ones could finish their work without finishing-off their operator.
Finishing Quality
The finishing quality of all the tools was very, very close. Choosing the right paper and speed enables any of these sanders to leave a nice finish. If pressed, I'd give the Makita, Festool, and DeWalt tools a slight edge in finishing quality. But in addition to the normal random orbital action found on all of the models, the Festool and Makita tools have another setting that provides more aggressive action. Festool calls this "combined rotary and eccentric action," while Makita labels it "forcible rotation mode." In both cases the pads rotate while adding an eccentric motion to the action. This removes materials faster than regular random orbital action. It doesn't leave as smooth a finish and tends to grab the wood, but it's a good feature.
Vibration, Feel, and Switches
In most tool tests I consider a tool's performance more important than ergonomics. But since I use right-angle sanders for long stretches, comfort is critical. In fact, I'd choose a model that's quiet, vibration-free, and comfortable to hold over one that's faster or even more durable.
The Makita and Festool sanders stand out as particularly vibration free and quiet, perhaps due to their larger size and weight. The Porter Cable sander is only a hair behind them. The Fein and DeWalt tools are also good in this regard. But Bosch's mechanical noise was unpleasant, and Milwaukee's vibration level was the highest of the bunch; I could feel the effects of this tool after an hour.
The tool bodies vary in shape from the short, bulky Porter-Cable to the long, thin Festool. All the tools were comfortable to hold with the following caveats: Fein's body is well-shaped, but made of slippery plastic; Porter-Cable's may be too thick for small hands; and DeWalt's switch falls right under your palm. The Makita and Festool sanders felt the most comfortable to me.
The heads on most of these sanders are shaped so you can hold them one-handed, like a large palm sander. This is useful for working on horizontal surfaces. I like DeWalt's rubber bonnet for this task. I found the Milwaukee tool's head got too hot to hold.
Six of the tools have sliding, lock-on, or rock-on power switches. Only the Milwaukee sander uses a paddle-type switch that you have to hold because there's no switch lock. This limits the ways you can hold the tool. The Festool was the only sander I managed to switch off accidentally. Its switch is located right where my thumb falls and a little downward pressure rocks it off.
All the sanders have well-designed, comfort side handles that mount on the left or right of the tool heads. The Festool, Makita, and Porter-Cable sanders came in carrying cases, which is a nice bonus.
Favorites
I'd be satisfied with any of these tools, but I do have my favorites. Tool prices range from about $150 to $500, but I didn't find that performance related directly to cost. In fact, my top pick isn't the priciest. My first choice is Makita's BO6040 because of its smooth, powerful, and pleasant performance. The Festool Rotex RO150E is a close second; it's a super tool and the only problem I had was with the switch location. Porter-Cable's 97366 is right behind; it's a great sander at a great price. DeWalt's DW443 comes next, I didn't find much wrong with this tool, but the company could improve the switch location. Fein's MSF636-1 left an excellent finish, but I wonder why such an expensive tool lacks speed control and has such an awkwardly shaped head. Bosch's sander noise was a negative, as was the ease at which its dust bag fell off. Milwaukee's 6125 sander follows them all across the finish line.
Chris Kulzycki is a boat builder and writer in West River, Md. He was an instructor at the Wooden Boat School for 10 years.
http://www.tooled-up.com/Product.asp?PID=111879
these are available in the U.K.
sorry for hijack..........
just shipped a pc from states for about 100 us cheaper.
but it looks a good alternative.
these are available in the U.K.
sorry for hijack..........
just shipped a pc from states for about 100 us cheaper.
but it looks a good alternative.