What's the Ceiling?

Beemerboy

Beemerboy

Just One More Coat
In reading a post this morning, someone was looking for a good detailer in So Cal. There where a couple of suggestions for detailers in his area. One was at 5 to 6 hundred and another upwards of 8 to 9 hundred.

My full details hoover around 3 hundred plus and minus depending on condition and size, for cars. SUV and 4x4 are more but that's another story.

So I guess the question is what can you charge and where is the ceiling?

I understand this is predicated on what area and maybe experience of the detailer, but there has to be a threshold.
 
Think there is a huge "what the market will bear" component to the question. Sure, skills and results may let you attempt to charge a premium, but you need customers willing to pay it.
 
mjlinane said:
Think there is a huge "what the market will bear" component to the question. Sure, skills and results may let you attempt to charge a premium, but you need customers willing to pay it.
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That's the direction I was driving this at. There are areas that have a higher income, where you have higher end cars and some that are willing to spend big bucks on detailing.

That isn't here!

But that said, I think that there are some detailers put up some serious smoke and mirrors.
 
I agree that this is mostly about what area you are in and the experience of the detailer. But I also think it has to do with perceived value. You are really only limited to how much your customer will pay.



Some people are willing to pay $500+ for a jar of wax. Is that $500 jar of wax that much better or truly more valuable than a $15 jar or bottle. I don't think so but there are some out there that can validate it, and I say good for them. I would love to have / try some of these high end waxes but as long as I am having to pay using my money the reality is I will not be purchasing them. If we always based everything on true time and cost we would all be using Colli #845 because it is a great value and in the end the prep work determines the final results a 98% of the time anyway.
 
Why should there have to be a ceiling? Charge what you can, offer a logical and rational justification for your prices based off services rendered, skill and experience, the condition of your current market, and with an idea who you are trying to market to.

Detailing is the art of creating a refined aesthetic, not just simple cleaning. It's very subjective, and different detailers will often have vastly different ideas and opinions on what it will take to completely detail a vehicle. Given this subjectivity and variance in services rendered, you can romanticize your offerings a bit. Essentially, if you can create an image and reputation for yourself you can create a consumer base that will stand up to a higher cost.
 
I would say there is no real ceiling and primarily dependent on the reputation of the detailer in question and market demand. Another detailer could do equal work in every respect but not be able to get the same prices.
 
Im in So.Ca and my neighbor charges 95.00 per hour for detailing .

I was surprized too, but I say more power to him if he can get people to pay that for his services.
 
detailchick said:
Im in So.Ca and my neighbor charges 95.00 per hour for detailing .

I was surprized too, but I say more power to him if he can get people to pay that for his services.
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I concur on that. I couldn't get that kind of money to save my life here
 
Beemerboy said:
I concur on that. I couldn't get that kind of money to save my life here
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If you don't mind me asking, how long does a typical detail take you? And I'm assuming (hopefully not overstepping here) that your $300 details don't go into the 85%+ paint correction range?


BTW, great thread. I hope some "big dogs" chime in too.
 
mikenap said:
If you don't mind me asking, how long does a typical detail take you? And I'm assuming (hopefully not overstepping here) that your $300 details don't go into the 85%+ paint correction range?


BTW, great thread. I hope some "big dogs" chime in too.
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On the average about 5 hours, my paint correction is two stage polishing, glaze and LSP...sealants mostly

Clay and wash are a given on my details.
 
I guess the same question could be asked of blue jeans, watches, and shoes. A pair of Diesel brand jeans can cost more than $400, a Rolex sells for $15,000, and a Coach handbag can cost between $200-600. Think thats a lot? How about a pair of Earnestsewn jeans for $1400, a Montblanc Grand Tourbillion watch sells for over $350,000, and a Channel "Diamond Forever" Classic for $250,000!

I am not sure if there is a ceiling for detailing prices, I know of a gentleman who paid over $40,000k to have his vintage Mercedes Benz detailed prior to last year's pebble beach (the detail is said to have taken 800 hours and included wet sanding things like springs, the engine block, painted bolts, seat rails, I mean really all-out).

One thing that has surprised me is detailers who, through hard work and creative thinking (and ever reaching results) have made huge inroads into the high-end market in rural places or places where the less-forward thinking individual would likely give up.

So I think only ceiling we have (perhaps in life?) is the one we place on ourselves.
 
Bunky said:
I would say there is no real ceiling and primarily dependent on the reputation of the detailer in question and market demand. Another detailer could do equal work in every respect but not be able to get the same prices.
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Paul Dalton comes to mind.
 
This is a good topic and thread.

In my experience it tends to be how far are you going hourly. What I have been getting involved in would maybe be more classified as a resto-detail.

Dave your price point seems right
based on what you say of your market.

Many of the details I did go a little overboard for new people....That was throwing in a full correction. This was at a flat rate for all.

When it comes to full reconditioning it
has varied. These jobs require a full tear down of the interior and any exterior trim. Sometimes paint touch up is involved along with repair or replacement of worn items. There can also be a downside. The client may mention the cost but not the amount of work to someone. Calling it a detail would turn people off to the pricing.

Another thing is risk and cost of insurance. Once getting into more high end and original classics the risk goes way up. I get's tricky charging
based on what you work on. Your higher end will not like paying more per hour for the same work you do on lower end vehicles.

This has always been one of those where should I be at things for me.
You need volume either way. Many average scale or consistent long
term projects. It gets hard to do both and keep everyone happy timeframe wise.

It's been said before, pick your market and pursue it. Of course this all boils down to the goals of it as a business.
 
Todd Helme said:
I guess the same question could be asked of blue jeans, watches, and shoes. A pair of Diesel brand jeans can cost more than $400, a Rolex sells for $15,000, and a Coach handbag can cost between $200-600. Think thats a lot? How about a pair of Earnestsewn jeans for $1400, a Montblanc Grand Tourbillion watch sells for over $350,000, and a Channel "Diamond Forever" Classic for $250,000!

I am not sure if there is a ceiling for detailing prices, I know of a gentleman who paid over $40,000k to have his vintage Mercedes Benz detailed prior to last year's pebble beach (the detail is said to have taken 800 hours and included wet sanding things like springs, the engine block, painted bolts, seat rails, I mean really all-out).

One thing that has surprised me is detailers who, through hard work and creative thinking (and ever reaching results) have made huge inroads into the high-end market in rural places or places where the less-forward thinking individual would likely give up.

So I think only ceiling we have (perhaps in life?) is the one we place on ourselves.
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The person that spends excessive amounts on clothes or jewelry, doesn't mean they are going to pop for a 800 dollar detail. Perception of value is all this really is.
 
Beemerboy said:
The person that spends excessive amounts on clothes or jewelry, doesn't mean they are going to pop for a 800 dollar detail. Perception of value is all this really is.
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You misunderstood what I meant.

Is a fine watch, such as a Rolex, a higher quality watch then a 150 dollar Fossil, yes? Is it a good value? Depends on too many factors for me to say. To some people no, to some people yes. Is a Montblanc a higher quality watch then a Rolex? It is hand made, features the finest metals and parts, and is crafted by an artisan, so for all intensive purposes, yes. Is it worth $320,000 more than a Rolex, again not for me to say, it's too individual.

Is a detail that takes 30 hours to correct going to look better then one that is done in 5 hours? Well it absolutely should, given that 600% more time was invested into it. Is it going to look 600% better? Probably not, but then again, for those who want perfection, the cost is well worth it.

Value is always a perception based on the individual. When I detail a car I have a value that I am worth and I don't work for less. My clients, with over a 95% return rate, are extremely happy with the value of the quality that I deliver.
 
Beemerboy said:
The person that spends excessive amounts on clothes or jewelry, doesn't mean they are going to pop for a 800 dollar detail. Perception of value is all this really is.
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I would have to believe that in Sonoma County there is more than enough customers will money to pay premium rates. The question is what is your competition doing, what rates are they getting, and how you are marketing yourself. I think some of it is just outright shameless self-promotion by posting your work on forums and elsewhere. You have to think you're great (meaning acting like an artisan with the self-confidence) as part of the sale and then deliver to get your reputation.

There was a click and brag on another forum where a tandem did several cars for a customer in the wine country and got to stay at their house to boot while doing the work.
 
Bunky said:
I would have to believe that in Sonoma County there is more than enough customers will money to pay premium rates. The question is what is your competition doing, what rates are they getting, and how you are marketing yourself. I think some of it is just outright shameless self-promotion by posting your work on forums and elsewhere. You have to think your great (meaning acting like an artisan with the self-confidence) as part of the sale and then deliver to get your reputation.

There was a click and brag on another forum where a tandem did several cars fir a customer in the wine country and got to stay at their house to boot while doing the work.
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This is a very rich county, wine is our number one crop! That said I don't market this business much. Its not what I do for a living its a weekend part time thing only.

As for what the other detail shops are doing I'm above them on a lot of my details. As for the quality of my work compared to theirs I kick them to curb.

That's said with the customers I do business with, I'm at the ceiling for what they are willing to pay. But that's based off the service not just the detailing.
 
The area I live and work in isn't full of rich people and expensive cars, and in order to remain in business for so many years, I've had to follow the market accordingly. I meet people from time to time who are just starting up, and come in thinking they are going to charge out the a$$ and create a new high end market around here. All I can do is laugh because I already know what's going to happen. Instead of taking the advise from someone who already knows what people will pay, they try to price their work as if they live in Hollywood. Next thing you know they are going under. Would it be nice to make $800 on every car I do? Absolutely. However, the cost of living here isnt anywhere near what it's like there, and those economics trickle down to businesses like this. $200 per day still isn't a bad wage at all considering one could be making $80 a day doing the same thing for a dealership or flipping burgers at McDonalds.
 
mrclean81 said:
The area I live and work in isn't full of rich people and expensive cars, and in order to remain in business for so many years, I've had to follow the market accordingly. I meet people from time to time who are just starting up, and come in thinking they are going to charge out the a$$ and create a new high end market around here. All I can do is laugh because I already know what's going to happen. Instead of taking the advise from someone who already knows what people will pay, they try to price their work as if they live in Hollywood. Next thing you know they are going under. Would it be nice to make $800 on every car I do? Absolutely. However, the cost of living here isnt anywhere near what it's like there, and those economics trickle down to businesses like this. $200 per day still isn't a bad wage at all considering one could be making $80 a day doing the same thing for a dealership or flipping burgers at McDonalds.
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You understood just what my point is. Demographics is a huge thing when your looking into a business. Not every area in this country can support the high end detailing business model.
 
Beemerboy said:
You understood just what my point is. Demographics is a huge thing when your looking into a business. Not every area in this country can support the high end detailing business model.
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Just a thought here.....and again I'll use Tood Cooperider as an example. If I had to guess, Ohio isn't the hotbed of Ferrari owners, yet Todd has made a name specializing in them. He has cars shipped to him from all over the country just so someone can say Todd C. detailed their Ferrari. This shows how important marketing yourself to the right clientele can be. Todd is a great detailer, but his marketing and self-promotion skills are equally on point.:cool:
 
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