Business Problem

immaculate

immaculate

King of Cheese
I have a long boring question, but maybe someone can help. I hereby appeal to the wisemen of Detail City for advice (must live up to my new christening as the "king of cheese")

My goal with detailing is to do the best job possible and then make money. My friend and partner just wants to make money. This causes a conflict of interests. He doesn't agree with some of the purchasing decisions I've made. I bought a PC and some Klasse products and some Microfiber, must haves in my opinion. Before I had bath towels, a rotary w/ wool bonnet and some crap polish.

Detailing is my idea and I just brought him on the side. I share profits 50/50 with him, cause I don't care. But how do I deal with his protests to my decisions on making our detailing unit the best there is?

Seems like he just wants to be some cheap detailer, when I REALLY wanna be the best at it. It's a hobby as much as anything for me.

But it sucks, cause he's been my friend forever, so foremost I want to preserve the friendship, and i also want to retain him on at 50/50 profit, but I want to make it clear that I'm going to purchase products and run the business how I see is best (50/50 profit is generous I think).

Any suggestions on how to resolve this problem? Thanks in advance,
"The King of Cheese"
 
Sit down together (no beer)
And start the conversation talking about the great friendship you have and how you want to always remain friends ...
Then steer the conversation to the detailing business and lay out your goals and plans for the business and since you are friends even explain why these are your goals etc.
Tell him you do not want the difference of opinion to ruin the friendship, but firmly tell him that if you are going to move forward together ... quality must come first.
If he doesn't agree then now is the time to say that you can not be partners in this venture.
Discussing problems on the front end can resolve major problems in the long run.
A business does not usually thrive if there are two completely different philosophies for running the business.
Two different personalities can make it together in business but two different goals for a new business usually do not.
Be honest up front ... it is the best policy!
 
:yeah

Also, I would imagine you could convince him that doing the best job possible will eventually lead to more customers/profit. Thus, making it financially attractive to HIM. To me, it's hard to argue with that logic
 
50/50 is not where it is at. Trust me. I don't have any hard feelings towards this guy, but I had a business partner for a short while at that business I showed you on Friday. We split the profits 50/50 but the expenses were clearly not even. It was all my product we were using. It was my polisher, my pads, my protectant and tire cleaner and towels and vacuum and carpet cleaner and glass cleaner and everything else. We used his hose and that was about it. When we had a 500 dollar day I walked away with $250 in profit and $75 dollars of expense. He had zero expense. I should have been making more money since I had overhead that he didn't feel. He was a friend, however, and I just wanted to detail cars. As long as it wasn't costing me money at the end of the day then I was fine.

The problem was that it really was costing me money. I could make way more than $250 in 8 hours detailing on my own. We were washing cars for $25 or $30 bucks apiece when I could be out doing $150 detail jobs. Volume is nice, but not when you use the same amount of product in one day that you would usually use in 3 or 4 days doing fewer cars and making as much money. See what I'm saying?

Friendship is a valuable thing, but business is business. You can't take a beating just to save a friendship. I'm all about working with friends, but you have to see eye to eye about what is best for the business. If he wants to be a car washer then Les Olson is looking for a new wash boy. Detailers make way more money and are happier if they don't have someone slowing them down. If your friend is a weight around your neck and he is slowing you down and holding you back from being a success then you need to cut him loose. Don't cut him loose as a friend. Just let him know that your objectives and priorities are totally seperate and if you are going to continue to bear the financial responibility of keeping you in supplies and equipment then he is going to work for you at a 60/40 split. That's my suggestion anyway...
 
The fact that you are posting here asking questions like that, tells the whole storie.

He's not into for the DETAILING. If he were he would frequent the boards as much as you do, wanting to learn. :D

Find someone that has the same views and goals that you have. Or teach an old dog new tricks. Ask progressive questions: "How would you remove oxidation?" "Do you think bath towels scratch the surface?" show how mf are better to use, get him involved. Get him to see why the investments are needed in some cases. :bigups


great quote i live by:
"Change is automatic, PROGRESSIVE change is not." -A. Robbins


Central
 
I think you basically need to seperate your friendship from your business. Just the fact that he is unhappy with you buying quality products and doing quality work goes to show his business ethics. You can't (likely) change him and by continuing your business relationship with him you are going to be the losing partner in the end. Look at the way he goes about other aspects in his life and if he always is looking for the easy way out, and the quick buck, then that just confirms what the future holds. If you want customers to trust you (look at some of Nick0844 clients) then you need to be consistent and always do your best.

Eric
 
there is some realt good advice on this subject.
I agree i would sit him down and talk not in a confrontational way but in asking open ended questions. Ask him where he see's the business in a year or longer from now. and see if there may be a meet in the middle point.
If his views are totaly seperate from yours than I agree cut him lose before the friendship is compromised. You never know he may wake up and smell the coffee once you do talk or after he is cut out of the business.
Be honest and sincere and hopefully everything will work out ok in the end.
I hope the best for you and hopefully the friendship is not lost.
Good luck


Jay
 
immaculate said:
My goal with detailing is to do the best job possible and then make money.

My friend and partner just wants to make money.

This causes a conflict of interests.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you both may want to think about going after two different detailing market segments. Sort of like the quick wash/n/wax market and the high priced complete detailing market.

Your friend could be responsible for getting customers that need a quick service while you would handle getting high end customers who want complete detailings. Of course, both of you would work together on all jobs, however he would take the lead on the quick jobs and you would be in charge of the complete high priced detailings.

Just my thoughts...
 
He sounds like the Blue Coral car wash type to me and you sound like you want only the best. Your main problem is you two didn't have a business plan or mission statement. This would include a complete list of everything including intended insurance payments right down to your marketing budget. If you follow the above steps and list your goals for the next five years I have a feeling, his list of goals isn't going to be very long. nor will it be thorough. Your list should include everything you can think of, it shows your intent to run your business completely and with intent.
 
Business is business, friendships are friendships -- that line between the two is really thin...

It has been my experience that when it comes to friends and family, yeah they can help fill the bill in the absence of an employee, they can be a great motivational tool, they can be an all around awesome asset to a budding enterprise, they can be a great shoulder to cry upon when things are going less than ideal, but as time progresses when working with them, there comes a point when that friendship becomes strained. Goals and directional ideals begin to differ. In many cases great expectations turn into bitter resentments. This isn't always the case, and I know of many family/friend businesses out there that are operating, but for me, these seem to be the minority. Three things I accept that I cannot change are: people, places, and things -- I can have an influence upon them, but to change them is out of my grasp. If the two of you can't seem to find that working middle ground via a sit down discussion where both of you can express your plans, ideas, goals, and feelings without trying to change the others opinion, I guess ya might have to make that dreaded rough decision, do you want him as a business partner, or as a friend... for as time progresses without this ability to communicate you just might loose both.

I wish you two the best and do hope you can resolve it in a professional manner -- I also add this, "It is ok in agreeing to disagree" and "Not making a decision is actually making a decision." :)
 
There has seriously been some great adivice given here. Thank you all. The king of cheese can't help but honestly and sincerely admire the speed that responses come on here. Not to mention the superb quality of said responses. Thank you.

After reading through and thinking about it, here's what I'm thinking, stay in a partnership with him, which means I need to formulate an "articles of partnership."

But this is the tricky part. Basically I'd like to bring him on as a Jr. partner. But I don't know how that works, since I beleive Jr. Partners generally just provide forms of capital to the partners, and not service...but I guess they're interchangeable.

So I figure if I can make an agreement where the business is mine, logo, name, etc... then do a 60/40 split on net capital, with my 60 being used for buying and marketing the company, hopefully he'll be happy.

One ace I have is that presently the next 250 dollars we made was going to go to me to pay for equipment that I bought. If I just say 60/40, don't worry about the 250, i'll get it back that way, he'll probably be more receptive.

What do you all think?

I'm thinking since capital and only capital is what he wants, he may not do it.............a.dsfjads;lfkjdsaf;dsafjk

I should probably get that book suggested on here, I'm not a good boss at all. Anthony, I'm sure you can tell how my personality would deal with this issue. :D
 
Someone was on to a really great idea - sit him down at your computer and show him the details Clean Dean and Nick0844 do - Show him the type of cars they do and their repeat business. Explain they don't get that business from using quick crappy products and being sloppy. People who pay for a 30 dollar hand wash expect a great job, anything less then you've lost a customer, and started WOM (word of mouth).

For Example I pay 40 bucks a week to get my yard cut - my neighbor pays 20 and his guy always comes over to me to try and get my business...My guy takes pride in doing his job right and it always shows (my lawn is not that big and he is there ususally ~ 1hr with another guy cutting, trimming, edging - the works..). let's just say I've seen the other guy cut grass and it ain't worth the 20 he charges :)...people pay more for quality.
 
Your still on the losing end of the stick here. Think about it, he wants to do cheap work, so you do full details @ 150ea and he does cheapies @50 ea. So now you just did 3 times more work and provided everything and he gets 40%. I dont think so. You need to stand your ground and tell him to either follow your lead or get out of the way. It takes a passionate person to do the type of work we do and he lacks that passion. What make a great detailer isn't learned, its the passion that brought you here to DC and caused you to start this thread that does it. Knowing how is one thing, but caring about the end result is what sets us apart....end rant

Eric
 
Elortt,
Any man who is brave enough to defy the mullet is a man worth listening too.

Presently I'm just B.S.ing an article of partnership.

Keep in mind, he does do hard work, and works good too. He just doesn't MIND doing the cheapo jobs, and thinks we should do cheapo jobs till we get enough money to do good quality. While I want to just start out with quality, which is what we've done. But I just need to get some details clear with him, so tell me what you think, I'm still in the middle of writing it, and need to brief up on procedure on articles of partnership, but tell me what you think about these concepts (I'm Dave by the way):



Articles of Partnership

Immaculate Detailing
Senior Partner: David Petersen
Junior Partner: Royce Judd

Profits split 40%/40% with 20% put in business account, used for meetings, supplies and upkeep. 20% can be split 50/50 if needed. Supplies prior to march 2004 are property of David Petersen. Supplies bought and paid for by immaculate detailing are to be split 50/50, as long as 50/50 is used to purchase, otherwise supplies belong to individual who purchased. Decisions are to be made in unison when possible, when an agreement can not be made David Petersen retains final say. “Immaculate detailing” in all manner and ways, other than the supplies outlined above, are sole property of David Petersen.



bleh bleh bleh, what do you think?

"The King Of Cheese"
 
I think mirrorfinishman actually has some good advice there. If he wants to be a car washer then let him be one. If this is your business then you set up the appointments and schedule the cars and then bring him along for the cars you don't want to waste your time on. Have him pay you for the use of the supplies and for your managment and he keeps the rest. He becomes a commissioned employee instead of a partner. The directions you are going really isn't something that will work in a partnership. You have totally seperate goals. Either he needs to get on your train or you need to get on his. You can't have half the partnership wanting to cut corners and the other half wanting to exceed expectations. That is two seperate businesses trying to do their thing under the same banner and it doesn't work.

Your choices are to either:

a. Try to do business with someone who doesn't have the same goals.

b. Cut him loose and try to keep him as a friend.

c. Hire him for the jobs you don't want to do.

d. Let him operate his own thing under you and pay you for the use of your supplies and setting up the appointments.

Personally I'd choose B. If this guy is as close of a friend as you say he is then it is almost like doing business with family. That never goes well. I get along great with Dwayne, but its not a 15 year friendship or anything. Our relationship started as a business one and it went from there. I don't know how people do business with others who were life long friends to start and then business partners... that has to be tough.
 
Detailed,
i don't know about the corporation part...need to check into tax benefits and such, but a partnership seems to be ideal for now.

Anyways, talked to him about the 40/40 with 20 going into just another account for supplies and what have you. He liked that idea alot. So that being the case, I have a lot less worries than I did before.

Reflecting on it, I think he was just annoyed that he'd have to do 4 or more cars with me and not get any money out of it. Somewhat understandable.

20% will add up fast. Take in marketing costs, upkeep and supplies and there's STILL going to be lot's of money left over. We both agreed also that we'd help this girl go to college with left over money out of the 20%, so I like that. I hate it when money becomes a God. Just let me pay my damn rent, have some toys, Do my hobby of detailing, and then beep the rest.

So thanks for the advice, but it seems things will work out. Your advice really helped a lot though. I hadn't of thought of th 40/40 with a 20 reserver if it hadn't been for this thread.

So most meekly and contently I offer my thanks. It behooves me to grovel at the feet of the nobility of posters here at DC.

Thanks.
 
I like the idea of getting him on here (DC) and having him look at some of the work people do. this place has helped me get a passion for detailing. And he likes detailing and works good, but if I got him even more passionate about it, then it'd be SWEEET.

But I don't mind, cause with the 20% reserve I'm gonna be able to buy so many products and it's going to rock and I'm excited!!! And if the quality products are there, he'll use them with his hard work and get great results.

So it's looking great. Thanks for the advice eveyrone.
 
The Fuzz said:
I think mirrorfinishman actually has some good advice there. If he wants to be a car washer then let him be one. If this is your business then you set up the appointments and schedule the cars and then bring him along for the cars you don't want to waste your time on. Have him pay you for the use of the supplies and for your managment and he keeps the rest. He becomes a commissioned employee instead of a partner. The directions you are going really isn't something that will work in a partnership. You have totally seperate goals. Either he needs to get on your train or you need to get on his. You can't have half the partnership wanting to cut corners and the other half wanting to exceed expectations. That is two seperate businesses trying to do their thing under the same banner and it doesn't work.

Your choices are to either:

a. Try to do business with someone who doesn't have the same goals.

b. Cut him loose and try to keep him as a friend.

c. Hire him for the jobs you don't want to do.

d. Let him operate his own thing under you and pay you for the use of your supplies and setting up the appointments.

Personally I'd choose B. If this guy is as close of a friend as you say he is then it is almost like doing business with family. That never goes well. I get along great with Dwayne, but its not a 15 year friendship or anything. Our relationship started as a business one and it went from there. I don't know how people do business with others who were life long friends to start and then business partners... that has to be tough.
Click to expand...

Sounds like very good advice!!! Personally I'd choose C.
 
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